Man Commits Suicide at DLH - Page 2

innerSpaceman · 05-02-2008, 06:24 PM

I can't really think of suicide as a selfish act. I'm kinda thinkin' someone who's really doing that has a few more pressing concerns than the effect of their actions on other people.

Yes, I agree the effect of one's actions on other people is very, very, very important. But the end of your own existence kinda trumps that in significance.

The priority of "manners" might be a little skewed in someone who's so distraught they're going to end their own life, huh?

Prudence · 05-02-2008, 06:37 PM

So it's selfish to commit suicide because of the effect it might have on others, but it's not selfish to require someone to stay alive against their will?

Moonliner · 05-02-2008, 06:49 PM

So I sorta missed the pulse of the board on this one.

I guess it's easy to be cavalier from 3,000 miles away. I can certainly see where you all feel closer to this event. My apologies if I offended anyone with my earlier post.

Alex · 05-02-2008, 07:00 PM

I want to point it out that I am not the one who right turned the thread to issues of morality, right vs. wrong, etc.

But I agree with EH1812 for the most part. However, if I am going to grant that suicide can be a rational choice then I have no issue with saying one should take certain other rational considerations into account, such as trying to minimize the impact of the act on others.

Disneyphile · 05-02-2008, 07:12 PM

Ok, how can I say this -

If someone is knowingly very ill (be it mentally or physically), and the family knows this as well, then I don't really see it as selfish, because their loved ones are considered in the decision.

However, I do see it as selfish when someone doesn't consider their loved ones at all, leaving those loved ones to blame themselves for the rest of their lives, and aren't discreet or at least private about it.

Does that make sense now?

I know surviving loved ones in both scenarios.

alphabassettgrrl · 05-02-2008, 08:48 PM

My only experience of suicide is of considering it as a teen but realizing what I really wanted was attention.

Then in 1995 my dad ended his life. No warning, out of the blue. I wish he'd said something, got some help. But he didn't, couldn't, wouldn't; something. It's sad.

That's different from someone who's got a terminal disease. I could see it if I had Alzheimer's or something.

I feel bad for anyone who is hurting enough to want to kill themselves. I wish they could get help so they don't have to feel that anymore. Selfish? Maybe. Not really their consideration at that point though. Immoral? Hard to say.

CoasterMatt · 05-02-2008, 08:58 PM

I have seen suicide from a different angle - I was a peer counselor in high school, and worked a suicide prevention hotline through most of college.

I don't know anymore if it's a selfish act. Is it anymore selfish than the grieving loved ones left behind, who often times say "How could you do this to ME?" I do know, it's important for people to take care of each other, before they feel that they have no other course.

There's always somebody out there to listen, just keep talking.

Eliza Hodgkins 1812 · 05-02-2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prudence

So it's selfish to commit suicide because of the effect it might have on others, but it's not selfish to require someone to stay alive against their will?

I would say "want someone to stay alive" rather than require (though I suppose the law "requires"?), but I think they're both selfish to a certain degree. I just don't think all selfish acts are bad.

€uroMeinke · 05-02-2008, 10:52 PM

What's wrong with being selfish?

innerSpaceman · 05-03-2008, 08:20 AM

All hedonism considered, I don't think self-interest is a bad thing. But the word "selfishness," I believe, tends to imply self-interest that purposefully hurts others in the process. I don't know where the moral ground is on that, but i find hedonists and others swankier if that hurtful brand of selfishness brings them no pleasure. And so selfishness would be to avoid selfishness, if you get my drift.

* * *

ETA: i love discussing the moral implications of suicide ... then scrolling down to change forums, and seeing we're currently in "Disneyland and All Things Disney"

05-02-2008, 06:24 PM	#11
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	I can't really think of suicide as a selfish act. I'm kinda thinkin' someone who's really doing that has a few more pressing concerns than the effect of their actions on other people. Yes, I agree the effect of one's actions on other people is very, very, very important. But the end of your own existence kinda trumps that in significance. The priority of "manners" might be a little skewed in someone who's so distraught they're going to end their own life, huh?
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05-02-2008, 06:37 PM	#12
Prudence Beelzeboobs, Esq. Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Gavel - I haz it Posts: 6,287	So it's selfish to commit suicide because of the effect it might have on others, but it's not selfish to require someone to stay alive against their will? __________________ traguna macoities tracorum satis de
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05-02-2008, 06:49 PM	#13
Moonliner 8/30/14 - Disneyland -10k or Bust. Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 9,022	So I sorta missed the pulse of the board on this one. I guess it's easy to be cavalier from 3,000 miles away. I can certainly see where you all feel closer to this event. My apologies if I offended anyone with my earlier post. __________________ - Taking it one step at a time.
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05-02-2008, 07:00 PM	#14
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	I want to point it out that I am not the one who right turned the thread to issues of morality, right vs. wrong, etc. But I agree with EH1812 for the most part. However, if I am going to grant that suicide can be a rational choice then I have no issue with saying one should take certain other rational considerations into account, such as trying to minimize the impact of the act on others.
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05-02-2008, 07:12 PM	#15
Disneyphile SQUIRREL! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: On the curbside. Posts: 5,098	Ok, how can I say this - If someone is knowingly very ill (be it mentally or physically), and the family knows this as well, then I don't really see it as selfish, because their loved ones are considered in the decision. However, I do see it as selfish when someone doesn't consider their loved ones at all, leaving those loved ones to blame themselves for the rest of their lives, and aren't discreet or at least private about it. Does that make sense now? I know surviving loved ones in both scenarios. Last edited by Disneyphile : 05-02-2008 at 07:17 PM.
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05-02-2008, 08:48 PM	#16
alphabassettgrrl Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,978	My only experience of suicide is of considering it as a teen but realizing what I really wanted was attention. Then in 1995 my dad ended his life. No warning, out of the blue. I wish he'd said something, got some help. But he didn't, couldn't, wouldn't; something. It's sad. That's different from someone who's got a terminal disease. I could see it if I had Alzheimer's or something. I feel bad for anyone who is hurting enough to want to kill themselves. I wish they could get help so they don't have to feel that anymore. Selfish? Maybe. Not really their consideration at that point though. Immoral? Hard to say. __________________ Why cycling? Anything [sport] that had to do with a ball, I wasn't very good at. -Lance Armstrong
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05-02-2008, 08:58 PM	#17
CoasterMatt BRAAAAAAAINS! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: One Step Beyond... Posts: 8,802	I have seen suicide from a different angle - I was a peer counselor in high school, and worked a suicide prevention hotline through most of college. I don't know anymore if it's a selfish act. Is it anymore selfish than the grieving loved ones left behind, who often times say "How could you do this to ME?" I do know, it's important for people to take care of each other, before they feel that they have no other course. There's always somebody out there to listen, just keep talking. __________________ Do you like my photography? Visit photosbymatt.tumblr.com to purchase prints!
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05-02-2008, 10:52 PM	#19
€uroMeinke L'Hédoniste Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: A.S.C.O.T. Posts: 8,671	What's wrong with being selfish? __________________ I would believe only in a God that knows how to Dance. Friedrich Nietzsche
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05-03-2008, 08:20 AM	#20
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	All hedonism considered, I don't think self-interest is a bad thing. But the word "selfishness," I believe, tends to imply self-interest that purposefully hurts others in the process. I don't know where the moral ground is on that, but i find hedonists and others swankier if that hurtful brand of selfishness brings them no pleasure. And so selfishness would be to avoid selfishness, if you get my drift. * * * ETA: i love discussing the moral implications of suicide ... then scrolling down to change forums, and seeing we're currently in "Disneyland and All Things Disney"
	Submit to Quotes