The Eyes of Mara - Page 3

Prudence · 05-11-2006, 03:20 PM

I think that depends on context too. I mean, it doesn't really help me pick out GC at an airport if you tell me he's gay. It's irrelevant. It's like when someone's describing rude behavior they witnessed and they say "and then this (fat/skinny/flashy/poorly-dressed/white-shoe-after-labor-day-wearing/backwards baseball cap/sorwhore/D&D geek) person gave me the finger!" When the descriptor really is code for something the speaker considers unsuitable, it's an attempt to whitewash an otherwise offensive sentiment of "because you know all X people are Y."

I suppose sometimes I rationalize. I mean, I don't say "so yesterday I was talking to my friend - her dad's Egyptian, you know - and blah blah blah." But I have been known to say (in certain company, like when describing my friends to my mom) that "sometimes she feels like the world's against her because her dad's Egyptian and doesn't think she should be in school" instead of just "because her dad doesn't think she should be in school." I rationalize that I'm trying to convey that there's a cultural component to the disapproval rather than just some blanket misogyny, but I'm probably fooling myself.

blueerica · 05-11-2006, 03:56 PM

Actually in that context, I see exactly what you're trying to say.. I guess it's why this PC business is bullsh*t if we can't even admit the implications of what it is to come from a place. I can't imagine what it must be like to come from the islamic/muslim heritage, but I know what's inferred by what you're saying.

I think these types of conversations are difficult to have in a textual environment as this. I think what we're debating is something that's held in an inflection, a tone, histories beyond ourselves, a setting that's far too large for us to discuss, even here.

I think the majority of us are saying and feeling the same thing, though it may not come across in this written environment.

SzczerbiakManiac · 05-11-2006, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prudence

it doesn't really help me pick out GC at an airport if you tell me he's gay.

Well, it might if he was really, really gay!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prudence

I suppose sometimes I rationalize. I mean, I don't say "so yesterday I was talking to my friend - her dad's Egyptian, you know - and blah blah blah." But I have been known to say (in certain company, like when describing my friends to my mom) that "sometimes she feels like the world's against her because her dad's Egyptian and doesn't think she should be in school" instead of just "because her dad doesn't think she should be in school." I rationalize that I'm trying to convey that there's a cultural component to the disapproval rather than just some blanket misogyny, but I'm probably fooling myself.

I don't know that that's the case. Frankly, that sounds like it's a perfectly relevent reference to his racial/ethnic/religious status.

Prudence · 05-11-2006, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SzczerbiakManiac

Well, it might if he was really, really gay!

Well, it might depend on the airport....

Quote:

Originally Posted by SzczerbiakManiac

I don't know that that's the case. Frankly, that sounds like it's a perfectly relevent reference to his racial/ethnic/religious status.

Actually, I find it very interesting because her dad's actually Coptic Christian, but still holds views about women that we associate with Islam and not Christianity. I never really considered that there might be a cultural element to those sorts of beliefs that goes beyond religious affiliation. Of course now it seems perfectly logical. I'm fascinated by it and want to tell everyone, whether it's relevant or not.

Not Afraid · 05-11-2006, 05:28 PM

There are times when physical characteristics or cultural heritage IS important to what you are trying to say. But, to use the example used for me in LA Mag, which of those terms really told you something about me and my geekdom? Granted, he was just trying to make his story more interesting by painting a picture, but is that so different from what we do when talking about another person?

05-11-2006, 03:20 PM	#21
Prudence Beelzeboobs, Esq. Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Gavel - I haz it Posts: 6,287	I think that depends on context too. I mean, it doesn't really help me pick out GC at an airport if you tell me he's gay. It's irrelevant. It's like when someone's describing rude behavior they witnessed and they say "and then this (fat/skinny/flashy/poorly-dressed/white-shoe-after-labor-day-wearing/backwards baseball cap/sorwhore/D&D geek) person gave me the finger!" When the descriptor really is code for something the speaker considers unsuitable, it's an attempt to whitewash an otherwise offensive sentiment of "because you know all X people are Y." I suppose sometimes I rationalize. I mean, I don't say "so yesterday I was talking to my friend - her dad's Egyptian, you know - and blah blah blah." But I have been known to say (in certain company, like when describing my friends to my mom) that "sometimes she feels like the world's against her because her dad's Egyptian and doesn't think she should be in school" instead of just "because her dad doesn't think she should be in school." I rationalize that I'm trying to convey that there's a cultural component to the disapproval rather than just some blanket misogyny, but I'm probably fooling myself. __________________ traguna macoities tracorum satis de
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05-11-2006, 03:56 PM	#22
blueerica Nueve Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,497	Actually in that context, I see exactly what you're trying to say.. I guess it's why this PC business is bullsh*t if we can't even admit the implications of what it is to come from a place. I can't imagine what it must be like to come from the islamic/muslim heritage, but I know what's inferred by what you're saying. I think these types of conversations are difficult to have in a textual environment as this. I think what we're debating is something that's held in an inflection, a tone, histories beyond ourselves, a setting that's far too large for us to discuss, even here. I think the majority of us are saying and feeling the same thing, though it may not come across in this written environment. __________________ Tomorrow is the day for you and me
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05-11-2006, 05:28 PM	#25
Not Afraid HI! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 17,108	There are times when physical characteristics or cultural heritage IS important to what you are trying to say. But, to use the example used for me in LA Mag, which of those terms really told you something about me and my geekdom? Granted, he was just trying to make his story more interesting by painting a picture, but is that so different from what we do when talking about another person?
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