The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I suppose those are meant as half way rhetorical. I have no answer except to stop them from coming in, but we still need to do something about the millions upon millions of people here illegally.

While you and I may agree on some, if not many, points, you'll forgive me if as long as "They're taking over our economy, diluting our culture, and taking our jobs, so they better show me their papers!" remains on the table, I'm going to remain pretty skeptical of the motivation and morality of any proposal that focuses on people who are already here and committing no other crime than working without papers. Like Seth Meyers said on Weekend Update, "Show me your papers" was pretty much the Nazis' catch phrase.

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

Randomly thought this was kinda funny... work safe...

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2010/04/...une-500-cover/

[innerSpaceman]

scaeagles, would you approve of putting the punishment onus on employers? Making it criminally illegal to hire undocumented workers?


How fast do you think illegal immigration would stop if the president and board of directors of Tyson Foods were jailed tomorrow?

[scaeagles]

AZ has several emplyer enforcement laws, and in fact, two McDonald's restaurants near my home were recently raided with 60(ish) illegals apprehended and detained as well as the employers facing a loss of business licenses and immense fines. I whole heartedly support that.

And frankly, it is inexcusable with the new eVerfy system in place, to do it accidentally. Either there is identity theft and the employee is using false information, or the employer is not going through the process.

[innerSpaceman]

Yes, but arresting the fry cook or even the owners of BOTH Mickey D franchises will not stop the practice. Once again, the big fish are immune and instead we punish the most vulnerable - because they are powerless, and the corporate overlords of our society are powerful beyond reach of law.

Of course, Tyson is not "going through the process." Why should they?

[scaeagles]

Making murder illegal doesn't stop murder. Making shoplifting illegal doesn't stop shoplifting. I don't really think we should say that since a law doesn't make the impact we would like that we should abandon trying to stop certain practices and behaviors.

All that is possible is to enforce the law to the best of the enforcer's ability. I can't say I am familiar with the practices of Tyson, but if the orders are coming from the top as far as hiring practices then I say we need to find a way to get those callng the shots. May not ever happen. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't enforce the laws at the local level, arresting the fry cook and the employer that blatantly ignores the law.

[Alex]

However, when there is wholesale disregard for a law it is worth at least stopping to look if maybe the law is wrong, either at its core or in its specific implementation.

[BarTopDancer]

The only way that illegal immigration is going to slow/stop is when it becomes undesirable for them to be here. "show me your papers" may keep them out of AZ, but it won't keep them out of the rest of the US. Raiding businesses will just sprout up sweat shops where they will work.

Even the worst conditions in this country are better than mediocre conditions in many others.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

The only way that illegal immigration is going to slow/stop is when it becomes undesirable for them to be here.

Or just make it much easier to come here legally.

[BarTopDancer]

That too.

I am amused by Mexico officials upset by this.

“They have the right to be there, they are good workers,” says Ms. Olivera, a secretary in Mexico City, even though she admits her uncles originally crossed illegally. “When Americans come here to work, we treat them with respect. They should do the same with us.”