RIP in 2009

[JWBear]

So... years from now, when Laura Bush dies, we can make snide and tasteless comments about the Douglas family celebrating her death?

Dredging up 40 year old history to attempt to trivialize the death of one of the greatest figures in the history of the US Senate for partisan reasons is, imo, disgusting. Try and have some class like Nancy Reagan, Michael Steele, Mitch McConnell, and George Bush Sr. (among many). They all praised Kennedy’s nearly 50 year record of service to this country and dedication to making the lives of his fellow Americans better; and rightly so.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I don't think it's unfair to make mention of what he did 40 years ago. It was a tragic thing that he was responsible for and no amount of good he did afterward can change the fact that he was responsible for a young woman's death.

That said, I do find Kevy's comment a tad bit in bad taste if only because it paints a rather unflattering picture of the Kopechne family as petty and spiteful. I can't put myself in the shoes of someone who's had to suffer such a tragedy, but I would hope for their sake that they've been able to move over the last 40 years such that they haven't spent it wishing death on someone.

[Alex]

I don't see any problem with mentioning Chappaquiddick at this time. It was a significant blight on his life and career and says some ugly things about abuses of power. Does that necessarily diminish what he did as a politician? No.

But then what he did as a politician should also not burnish what he did as a drunk driver.

As for whether Laura Bush's fatal car accident is at all equivalent (nobody was under the influence, no criminal charges were filed, no serious allegations of abuse of power to cover it up, and she was 17 and not 37 so sheer youthful stupidity\inexperience is a much stronger defense than for the 37 year old Kennedy).

I'll agree that it was crudely put, though.

[JWBear]

There was no indication that he was drunk; that's complete hearsay. People who spoke to him immediately after the accident did report that he was disoriented, but this is consistent with the concussion that he suffered.
Yes, there is no proof that he wasn't drunk; but that doesn't automatically prove he was. The only thing he was convicted of was leaving the scene of an accident.

Second point... What abuse of power? He submitted to a criminal trial and, by all accounts, was completely cooperative with the authorities. He offered to resign his seat but was convinced otherwise by the overwhelming support he received from the residents of Massachusetts. If you are referring to the suit brought by the Kopechne family that was settled out of court... well, most lawsuits are. It proves nothing.

Yes, ultimately he was responsible for the death of Miss Kopechne. And he paid a steep price, both politically and personally for it. He wasn't the drunken, evil, rampaging, irresponsible monster that the right wing likes to portray him as. His long and distinguished career in the Senate proves that. The accident is ancient history. Honor the great service the man has given to this country, and let the past go.

The man just died. Have the decency to give him (and his loved ones) just that little bit of respect.

[mousepod]

I'm not trying to pile on, but why should there be a moratorium on dark humor when someone dies? Sometimes, the jokes are most apt amid the flood of tributes.

[Alex]

I have. I just don't consider pretending it didn't happen and expunging it from the record through some moral statute of limitations to be a necessary element of such respect.

And apparently nobody has any respect for him and his loved ones, every single career recap/obituary I've seen in the last 24 hours has included mention of the black mark on his career that Chappaquiddick was.

You obviously disagree but personally I see it as quite obvious that a lot of how the aftermath went down was more a result of his last name, not the merits of the situation. If she had been driving him I somehow doubt she'd have just been off with a leaving the scene charge.

Though I'm a bit curious if Kevy Baby was intentionally turning the tables on the thread that happened when Jesse Helms died and everybody was quite clear that being dead was no reason to ignore the bad things a person had done (I believe the suggestion was made that simple respect for the people who loved him could warrant restraint, and this was rejected), regardless of how long ago. He may have suspected that this is a sentiment that isn't necessarily truly universal. Just supposition on my part, though.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I'm no enemy of dark humor, I just found Kevy's entry a little lame as all it did was drag the Kopechne family's name into it just to take a pot shot at Ted.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Alex

I have. I just don't consider pretending it didn't happen and expunging it from the record through some moral statute of limitations to be a necessary element of such respect.

And apparently nobody has any respect for him and his loved ones, every single career recap/obituary I've seen in the last 24 hours has included mention of the black mark on his career that Chappaquiddick was.

I never said that it shouldn't be mentioned. But neither should his entire life be summoned up by the name "Kopechne".

Originally Posted by Alex

You obviously disagree but personally I see it as quite obvious that a lot of how the aftermath went down was more a result of his last name, not the merits of the situation. If she had been driving him I somehow doubt she'd have just been off with a leaving the scene charge.

If everything had otherwise been equal, then why not? Leaving the scene was the only illegal thing he did. The actual driving off the bridge was an accident; it could have happened to anybody. We can not know what was going through his head afterwards. Concussion, panic, fear, guilt, horror... these all can make you do things you wouldn't otherwise. We all do things that we later regret. No one is immune, not even US Senators. He reacted like a Human; how horrible of him. But all these irresponsible actions were after the accident. Even if he had done everything correctly and properly, Mary Jo Kopechne would still be dead.

Originally Posted by Alex

Though I'm a bit curious if Kevy Baby was intentionally turning the tables on the thread that happened when Jesse Helms died and everybody was quite clear that being dead was no reason to ignore the bad things a person had done (I believe the suggestion was made that simple respect for the people who loved him could warrant restraint, and this was rejected), regardless of how long ago. He may have suspected that this is a sentiment that isn't necessarily truly universal. Just sopposition on my part, though.

I did not, and I still do not agree that making light of Helms’s death was ok. I can not give Kevy a pass just because others made light of it.

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

I'm no enemy of dark humor, I just found Kevy's entry a little lame as all it did was drag the Kopechne family's name into it just to take a pot shot at Ted.

Agreed.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by JWBear

I never said that it shouldn't be mentioned. But neither should his entire life be summoned up by the name "Kopechne".

I agree. I disagree that anybody did so.

Though I will admit to an urge to throw dirt a bit. But I always feel that way when our society is in one of its paroxysms of posthumous fellatio.

Regardless of how good a person the fellatee is. And Kennedy was a good politician, I have no strong reaction either way to his death.

If everything had otherwise been equal, then why not?

Everything couldn't be equal, she wasn't a Kennedy. Like I said, obviously you disagree and we can never know who's right. Though I am.

I did not, and I still do not agree that making light of Helms’s death was ok.

You didn't make light of it, but you hardly showed any respect to him or his family and did express your happiness that he was dead and hoped he was enjoying his first night in hell. It doesn't strike me as such an extension to assume that those actually harmed by the deceased (if you believe there was harm) might have a similar feeling.

(Though I find it as pointless to suppose their reaction as it is for you to assume insult to Kennedy and his family.)

Now everybody get back to the posthumous fellatio! As a collective nation, it is what we do best.

In terms of making light, I suppose this would be a really bad time to break out the Ted Kennedy Volkswagen commercial?

[Snowflake]

Originally Posted by Alex

In terms of making light, I suppose this would be a really bad time to break out the Ted Kennedy Volkswagen commercial?

??