Kid suspended for drawing a gun

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

It depends on where the drawing was. If it's on homework to turn in to a teacher as this kid did, yes. On a test, yes. If it was his own journal or at home or in an art class, no.

See, this is where I part completely with you. For all of the reasons CP listed above. A drawing of a gun in isolation, with no other behavioral indicators of a problem, should not be enough to warrant suspension. If the teacher talks to him and he gets defiant about it, absolutely. If a teacher or counselor has warned him not to do it again and he does it again, suspend his ass. If a counselor talks to him and learns that he's dealing with some issues at home...no, scratch that, that should prompt more counseling, NOT punishment.

Going straight to punitive measures for a simple act of expression, even somewhat inappropriate expression, with zero attempt at resolving it with communication is a recipe for disaster. It's telling ALL students, not just this one, that they will not be listened to, that they need to be afraid that what they might say or express will get them in trouble. That, to me, is the kind of thing that leads to Columbine.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

It's telling ALL students, not just this one, that they will not be listened to, that they need to be afraid that what they might say or express will get them in trouble. That, to me, is the kind of thing that leads to Columbine.

I hear you. The Columbine shooters were bullied and were not backed up by the school officials. Then they snapped and committed horrendous crimes. I think the people that were not letting them express themselves were their classmates. There was a lot of bullying going on, from what I remember. (I'm not justifying what they did. They were wackos.)
There were warning signs with Columbine and those signs were ignored. I'd rather a school be diligent about these warning signs than ignore them.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

There were warning signs with Columbine and those signs were ignored. I'd rather a school be diligent about these warning signs than ignore them.

You're getting locked into "Columbine" as the only example. There are plenty of others where bullying wasn't the issue. The only real constant between any of them was that the perpetrators were in desperate need of help and didn't get it for one reason or another.

Blindly suspending students for expression is not diligence. It's simply the other end of the spectrum from completely ignoring it. It's, "We're incapable of treating you as an individual, so we're just going to hope the problem just goes away." Bad bad news.

[Ghoulish Delight]

In the aftermath of any of the incidents, Columbine or otherwise, did you really think, "Gosh, if only the school had punished those kids more, this wouldn't have happened!"?

I come from a public school teaching family. Each of my parents has 30+ years of on-campus experience in the LAUSD, including many years in schools in what are considered dangerous neighborhoods. At risk of speaking for them, but knowing them fairly well, I'd be shocked if their answer to my posed hypothetical of this drawing being a first "offense" were any different than mine. They went to work each day with the idea in mind to teach and help their students, not to punish them. Punishment was a useful tool when necessary, but it was never a first line action.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

In the aftermath of any of the incidents, Columbine or otherwise, did you really think, "Gosh, if only the school had punished those kids more, this wouldn't have happened!"?

Maybe if they had been, they would be changed people now and not dead murderers.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Seriously? You think punishment is the answer?

I guess I don't have anything more to say to that. I couldn't disagree more. I saw way too many of my classmates go into self-destructive spirals because all the school ever did to "address" their obvious social issues was punish them and punish. And when that didn't work, they punished them more. Until they just gave up and kicked them out of school. They made no effort to actually help these kids, they just suspended them over and over. It was atrocious.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Seriously? You think punishment is the answer?

I guess I don't have anything more to say to that. I couldn't disagree more.

Accountability for one's actions. I'm quite serious.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

Accountability for one's actions. I'm quite serious.

How will they learn accountability, though, if you aren't talking to them about what they did, or why they did it, or how it can be misconstrued (or correctly interpreted.) I highly doubt that Columbine could have been prevented if they just suspended the kids. If they'd recognized their cries for help and responded with counsel and communication, that's one thing. Suspension? Really?

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

How will they learn accountability, though, if you aren't talking to them about what they did, or why they did it, or how it can be misconstrued (or correctly interpreted.) I highly doubt that Columbine could have been prevented if they just suspended the kids. If they'd recognized their cries for help and responded with counsel and communication, that's one thing. Suspension? Really?

Yep. I think this kid knows how serious the situation is as do his parents. If there are any questions about this kid in the future at least the parents and teachers will notice.

And, yes, we don't know the whole story. I haven't seen any updates on it...

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

Yep. I think this kid knows how serious the situation is as do his parents. If there are any questions about this kid in the future at least the parents and teachers will notice.

See, that's just it. Suspension without reason isn't addressing anything, it's copping out and deferring to "the future". If it IS something more than just doodling, NOW is the time to figure that out, not the time to smack him and hope that fixes it.