The Dark Knight - [spoilers ahead, ye be warned]

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Heheh, I still think Batman Returns is the best Batman movie by far.

This after saying that DK's move towards a more realistic world was a good thing?

I'm still giving the edge to Begins as a far more well constructed movie. There are elements of DK I like better, but the whole package just wasn't as well executed.

Originally Posted by innerspaceman

and instead we got what I found to be a suitable replacement - fantastic attention to the theme of moral dilemma.

See, and I thought that Begins did a FAR superior job of attending to its theme, fear, than DK AND it had a plot.

[innerSpaceman]

Ok, yes, please change the title of the thread.


I think it goes without saying that a movie thread will not have spoiler tags forever. Yes, at some point the title should be changed. I hope someone who retains the power to do that ... will.

[innerSpaceman]

I'm not sure that Fantasy Batman is better or worse than Reality Batman. In fact, I'm quite sure that, imo, one style is not better than the other.


But just as I think Burton did Fantasy Batman better in Batman Returns than in Batman, I feel Nolan did Reality Batman better in The Dark Knight than in Batman Begins.


And was Fear the theme of Batman Begins? I honestly wasn't aware of that. So pretty weak theme, in my perception. But, yes, a definite plot. And I appreciated that. It was just way more of a Fantasy Batman plot with Reality Batman trimmings.

I found TDK more cohesive ... just not in the plot department.



I need to see it again.


Next weekend ... IMAX.

[Gemini Cricket]

"Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We're tonight's entertainment." ~ The Joker

For some reason, I have this quote in my head. Partly because of it being in the trailer, partly because I absolutely love the way he delivered his greeting.

I dreamed about Ledger last night. We were in some big city. He was standing in the background in Joker garb while something else I don't remember happened in the foreground. I waved at him.
I told him, "I liked your performance in the movie."
He said in the Joker's voice, "Did you laugh?"
I said, "Yes."
He said, "Good."
Then he walked away skipping with his hands in his pocket.
It was a cool, benign dream.

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

For some reason, I have this quote in my head. Partly because of it being in the trailer, partly because I absolutely love the way he delivered his greeting.

I dreamed about Ledger last night. We were in some big city. He was standing in the background in Joker garb while something else I don't remember happened in the foreground. I waved at him.
I told him, "I liked your performance in the movie."
He said in the Joker's voice, "Did you laugh?"
I said, "Yes."
He said, "Good."
Then he walked away skipping with his hands in his pocket.
It was a cool, benign dream.

heh- who says it was a dream?

[Alex]

And:

Doing bad things is necessary, but it is important that the hoi polloi maintain their distrust of you for doing them. But doing them is still an important thing.

[BarTopDancer]

Am I the only one who didn't read "pro-Bush", "jab at Bush" into this movie?

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

Am I the only one who didn't read "pro-Bush", "jab at Bush" into this movie?

No- I did not either.

[mousepod]

A little dissent here: The Dark Knight is an OK movie.

As a piece of cinematic escapism - it was great. It had my (mostly) full attention from beginning to end. But when the credits ended and I started to think about it, there were a ton of quibbles that prevented it from being the great movie I hoped it would be.

(Before I present those quibbles, remember that I do like the movie - I'm just being contrary for the sake of this discussion.)

Unlike iSm, I really liked the Gotham City of Batman Begins. Gotham was never just Chicago to me.

The only thing I didn't love about the Batman from Begins was the squished face made by the cowl and... the growl. In this movie, more squish, more growl. I know it's reminiscent of the Frank Miller Batman, but I was always more of a Neal Adams Batman kind of guy.


The plot. Was there one? Or many? I know the film wanted to be "complex", but the fact that there were several "ticking clock" episodes throughout the movie made for a lessening of overall suspense, IMO.

Two-Face. For a classic Batman villain, he really wasn't much of a menace, was he? He bumped off a corrupt cop and a mob guy, and then threatened the life of Gordon's kid. And then he dies. And nobody remembers him.

Which brings me to: The Ending. Does Batman really need to be the fall guy for Dent's criminal actions? Why couldn't they just blame The Joker? Or any other number of scenarios? He's such a hero, that now he gets chased. Whatever.

And lastly (for the moment), what about the sound mixing? There were important lines of dialog that were all but swallowed up my explosions and the booming soundtrack. I didn't really want to have to strain to hear Gordon's final monologue.

In all... it's a good effort that I will undoubtedly revisit when it comes out on blu-ray later in the year. But for now, I think it pales in comparison to Begins. And yes, Hellboy II is a better "comic book movie".

A final note on Heath as The Joker. It was a wonderfully written part - and Ledger did a fine job with it. Crazy villains tend to be the best parts in drama. I'll bet that, as written, it could have been done just as well by a number of other actors. LSPE and Tom mentioned Johnny Depp. I don't disagree.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by mousepod

Unlike iSm, I really liked the Gotham City of Batman Begins. Gotham was never just Chicago to me.

Oh yeah, forgot about that. It's not even realistic vs. fantastic to me, but the fact that it was so blatantly recognizable as Chicago bugged me. It brings to mind the complaints about Transformers using recognizable LA locations. Seeing the river and the Board of Trade building really made it hard for me to think of it as Gotham.

Even when other incarnations have been blatant about Gotham=New York, they've never actually used NY landmarks.