A symptom of a greater problem worldwide

[scaeagles]

I saw this story, posted not long ago, regarding the French vote on the ratification of the EU.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117...-23109,00.html

All nations in Europe must ratify the EU constitution for it to take effect. The French (and Dutch) will most likely reject it. So the plan right now, at least in France, is to circumvent the referendum process, which is predicted to vote it down, and have the treaty ratified in parliament.

This angers me and it is something that happens here in AZ all the time.

We have ballot propositions here, as do most states. We had more than one vote on a taxpayer financed stadium for the AZ Diamondbacks. When they didn't pass, the legislature took over and passed it themselves. This is but one example. Another is our famous Prop 200, which denies non-emergency services to illegals, which was passed, and many government officials have said they will not enforce it.

When the people (whether in AZ or France) vote something down in a referendum process, who are these arrogant jackasses that decide the people don't know what is best and go around them through some other procedure.

It sickens me.

[Prudence]

I both agree and disagree. We had a similar taxpayer funded stadium fiasco up here. It got voted down, but the local officials built it anyhow and handed us the bill. Don't even get my dad started on that one...

However, recent local politics have illustrated the potential hazards of the referendum/initiative system. We have a local rabble-rouser whose claim to fame is no/low tax initiatives. He keeps proposing these initiatives to roll back car taxes, property taxes, etc..., and of course people vote for them. Who wouldn't like to pay fewer taxes? And I might even conceed that the first one or two helped cut unneeded waste in government. But he just keeps on going and eventually they start cutting core services. There are the usual arguments: My kids are out of school so why should I pay for public schools? My house has never burned down, so why am I paying for the fire department? It gets to where we have a separate levy for each public service - schools, roads, fire department, police, medic one, etc... And that's not the job of the public. That's what legislators are paid to do. Why are my taxes paying legislative salaries when Mr. Watch Salesman gets to make the budget decisions? And elections are expensive! Why do I have to vote on every spending decision? What are the legislators doing, anyhow?

I'm not sure how this helps the discussion. I'm still at "agree and disagree." On the one hand, I don't think legislators should override the clear will of the people -- whether stadiums or quasi-governmental organizations. On the other hand, sometimes the people don't know what the hell they're doing and vote to mandate smaller class sizes and teacher raises and simultaneously vote to cut property taxes back to 1984 levels -- thus removing most of the public school funding. (Heck, I'd be all for getting everything I get now, only paying nothing, too -- but I'm smart enough to know that's not possible.)

[sleepyjeff]

Here too. The citizens of Portland, Oregon voted down a billion dollar light rail line........They went around the voters and built it anyway(one weasely proponet went as far to say that he hoped the construction delays to build the line would prove how right they were in building it / ). The real kicker in all this is that when asked where the money will come from to pay for it they responded that they "FOUND IT! "..............okaay, we're paying a new County wide income tax to pay for the School budget crunch crisis(even though they have more money now then ever before) but a billion dollars is just lying around somewhere when they need it for something the citizens can't be scared into voting for


Ok.....3 deep breaths. I am calm