Let's Do Something about that DCA Problem

innerSpaceman · 11-29-2006, 07:50 PM

Wow, according to Al’s latest Update, famed Imagineer Tony Baxter is pushing for a radical plan to roll DCA into Downtown Disney and give up on calling it a theme park and charging for admission to the failed project.

Zoiks ... I can’t imagine the suits at Disney going for this, although I think it is the only proposal that faces reality. Steve Lassiter’s plans call for millions in upgrades and new attractions ... but Baxter’s camp feels the park is inherently flawed and no amount of money will ever make it a worthwhile companion park to Disneyland. I have to agree.

This reminds me of the failed and similarly named "Grand Adventures" Park in Las Vegas. It was a lame theme park behind the MGM Grand hotel. Originally, admission was charged for entry and all attractions were included. It wasn’t long, though, before the admission charge was scrapped and everyone was free to wander around, paying separately for any rides. Um, that didn’t work either. No one wanted to even wander around the place. Granted, it was an outdoor park in the hot Las Vegas desert ... but MGM eventually bowed to the inevitable, and the place was bulldozed.

I don’t see much better a fate for DCA. Isn’t everyone pretty much wandering around there for free right now? No one’s paying admission, right? It’s 99% APs at all times, if I’m not mistaken.

Baxter’s plan calls for a hotel on Harbor, with new entrances there, on Katella, and perhaps a one or two from the existing DTD. New restaurants and shops would go in, and Vacation Club villas would be sprinkled throughout (that last part reportedly being the only thing that Lassiter is sparking to).

While I certainly wouldn’t mind some new restaurants at the Resort, I just don’t see any real difference coming from the plan to make DCA more officially an extension of Downtown Disney. Oh, I certainly think Baxter’s plan is far more feasible than Lassiter’s pipe(smokin’)-dream of turning DCA into a successful theme park. But frankly I think the MGM plan is best of all: Bring in the bulldozers.

Alex · 11-29-2006, 08:06 PM

No, it's not 99% AP holders. Not nearly.

It is 99% park hoppers. Hardly anybody ever buys single park admission for DCA and most park admissions (to either park) are park hoppers which cost more than they would if it were a single park admission. So most people pay something for DCA, even if they never go into the park.

tracilicious · 11-29-2006, 10:26 PM

I don't ever ever see that happening. Never.

I don't think DCA is all that bad. Granted, we go a few times a year, but it always earns 75% of a day off our hoppers. Soarin is great, Screamin is fun if there's not much of a line, Indi loves the Playhouse Disney show, Alladin, Tower, and Muppets all garner a visit from us. It would never be our sole reason for going, but since we're there we'll go. Oh, and the best soft serve ice cream on earth.

I wish they would improve the food. We almost never eat there.

innerSpaceman · 11-30-2006, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tracilicious

I wish they would improve the food. We almost never eat there.

Heheh, and I remember when the only reason we went there was for the food. Now, there's not even that. They can add all the "life-saving" attractions they want ... if anything, the park has (on the whole) gone downhill since it opened.

Keeping the example of Vegas' "Grand Adventures" in my mind ... I find that DCA is not even a particularly pleasant place to wander about. Most of it is UGLY. Here and there you'll find a pretty spot or a well-themed walkway. But that's not enough to even make it a nice place to "be."

Neither is Downtown Disney ... though it's not unpleasant. The key is the stores and restaurants that make DTD lively. A few dozen more restaurants might do the same for DCA. And the major rides will still be there if anyone wants to, say, ride Tower of Terror after a big meal.

I vote for the Baxter plan. Lassiter is all wet. He just wants his PixarRides to have a home. Can't say as I blame him, but he's all wrong about DCA.

It's doomed.

Bornieo: Fully Loaded · 11-29-2006, 11:16 PM

I'd like to see them both combined into a place called Disneyland. Loose DCA name and create new names for the "lands." Have a underground tunnel under the esplanade connecting the two. Keep the uniquness of DCA, but transfuse some of the magic that the original has and DCA is greatly lacking.

Just a thought.

CoasterMatt · 11-29-2006, 11:18 PM

Can we start by removing my least favorite Intamin coaster (California Screamin')?

Prudence · 11-29-2006, 11:27 PM

I don't think the Tony Baxter plan will work. I don't see people buying a ride ticket for any of those rides. I think they'd just be used by people who bought passes to DL. And if those are the people already using it, that's not much change.

And I think that plan might do more harm. It's seems very Pressler-esque to pump the area full of hotels, shops, and restaurants. I think that will lead to less motivation to keep up the existing rides, which will lead to the bulldozer.

And I'm not convinced that the bulldozer is the way to go, because I don't trust them to do better starting from scratch. I think the motivation to get away with spending less would resurface, because it would be "new" cheap stuff and maybe it would work this time.

On the other hand, an existing problem is there, in your face, obviously needing a fix. And more retail/restaurants/hotels isn't the fix needed - it needs more/better attractions and a theme with a point. I could get behind the historical California theme. Vintage Hollywood? Cool! Disney-fied national park? Yay!

Will it be another equal to DL? No. But I don't think a replacement would be either. I think an inspired reimagining would give a better end product than giving up.

Cadaverous Pallor · 11-30-2006, 09:01 AM

I vote for the complete bulldozer treatment. Yes, I have a few rides that I enjoy there, but once you start down that road you have each fan asking that something remain. That place is bad voodoo and needs to be wiped clean before it can be made into a true themed Disney park.

No offence, Traci. I know there are plenty of people that enjoy it there, but I've been to DLP and I know what a real modern budget can do when creating a theme park experience.

Cadaverous Pallor · 11-30-2006, 09:33 AM

Great, your thread made me go read Al's report, and he always depresses me. Even after I started to feel good about the Pirate Island concept, the rest of it just makes me mad and sad. Lame.

Gemini Cricket · 11-30-2006, 10:00 AM

How about we just follow Joni Mitchell's advice?
"Pave Paradise (Pier) and put up a parking lot."

Ha ha.

11-29-2006, 07:50 PM	#1
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Let's Do Something about that DCA Problem Wow, according to Al’s latest Update, famed Imagineer Tony Baxter is pushing for a radical plan to roll DCA into Downtown Disney and give up on calling it a theme park and charging for admission to the failed project. Zoiks ... I can’t imagine the suits at Disney going for this, although I think it is the only proposal that faces reality. Steve Lassiter’s plans call for millions in upgrades and new attractions ... but Baxter’s camp feels the park is inherently flawed and no amount of money will ever make it a worthwhile companion park to Disneyland. I have to agree. This reminds me of the failed and similarly named "Grand Adventures" Park in Las Vegas. It was a lame theme park behind the MGM Grand hotel. Originally, admission was charged for entry and all attractions were included. It wasn’t long, though, before the admission charge was scrapped and everyone was free to wander around, paying separately for any rides. Um, that didn’t work either. No one wanted to even wander around the place. Granted, it was an outdoor park in the hot Las Vegas desert ... but MGM eventually bowed to the inevitable, and the place was bulldozed. I don’t see much better a fate for DCA. Isn’t everyone pretty much wandering around there for free right now? No one’s paying admission, right? It’s 99% APs at all times, if I’m not mistaken. Baxter’s plan calls for a hotel on Harbor, with new entrances there, on Katella, and perhaps a one or two from the existing DTD. New restaurants and shops would go in, and Vacation Club villas would be sprinkled throughout (that last part reportedly being the only thing that Lassiter is sparking to). While I certainly wouldn’t mind some new restaurants at the Resort, I just don’t see any real difference coming from the plan to make DCA more officially an extension of Downtown Disney. Oh, I certainly think Baxter’s plan is far more feasible than Lassiter’s pipe(smokin’)-dream of turning DCA into a successful theme park. But frankly I think the MGM plan is best of all: Bring in the bulldozers.
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11-29-2006, 08:06 PM	#2
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	No, it's not 99% AP holders. Not nearly. It is 99% park hoppers. Hardly anybody ever buys single park admission for DCA and most park admissions (to either park) are park hoppers which cost more than they would if it were a single park admission. So most people pay something for DCA, even if they never go into the park.
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11-29-2006, 10:26 PM	#3
tracilicious avatar transition Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: in-between Posts: 2,487	I don't ever ever see that happening. Never. I don't think DCA is all that bad. Granted, we go a few times a year, but it always earns 75% of a day off our hoppers. Soarin is great, Screamin is fun if there's not much of a line, Indi loves the Playhouse Disney show, Alladin, Tower, and Muppets all garner a visit from us. It would never be our sole reason for going, but since we're there we'll go. Oh, and the best soft serve ice cream on earth. I wish they would improve the food. We almost never eat there. __________________ And now Harry, let us step into the night and pursue that flighty temptress, adventure! - Albus Dumbledore
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11-29-2006, 11:16 PM	#5
Bornieo: Fully Loaded Lego Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Disneyland, USA Posts: 3,704	I'd like to see them both combined into a place called Disneyland. Loose DCA name and create new names for the "lands." Have a underground tunnel under the esplanade connecting the two. Keep the uniquness of DCA, but transfuse some of the magic that the original has and DCA is greatly lacking. Just a thought.
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11-29-2006, 11:18 PM	#6
CoasterMatt BRAAAAAAAINS! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: One Step Beyond... Posts: 8,802	Can we start by removing my least favorite Intamin coaster (California Screamin')? __________________ Do you like my photography? Visit photosbymatt.tumblr.com to purchase prints!
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11-29-2006, 11:27 PM	#7
Prudence Beelzeboobs, Esq. Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Gavel - I haz it Posts: 6,287	I don't think the Tony Baxter plan will work. I don't see people buying a ride ticket for any of those rides. I think they'd just be used by people who bought passes to DL. And if those are the people already using it, that's not much change. And I think that plan might do more harm. It's seems very Pressler-esque to pump the area full of hotels, shops, and restaurants. I think that will lead to less motivation to keep up the existing rides, which will lead to the bulldozer. And I'm not convinced that the bulldozer is the way to go, because I don't trust them to do better starting from scratch. I think the motivation to get away with spending less would resurface, because it would be "new" cheap stuff and maybe it would work this time. On the other hand, an existing problem is there, in your face, obviously needing a fix. And more retail/restaurants/hotels isn't the fix needed - it needs more/better attractions and a theme with a point. I could get behind the historical California theme. Vintage Hollywood? Cool! Disney-fied national park? Yay! Will it be another equal to DL? No. But I don't think a replacement would be either. I think an inspired reimagining would give a better end product than giving up. __________________ traguna macoities tracorum satis de
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11-30-2006, 09:01 AM	#8
Cadaverous Pallor ohhhh baby Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Parental Bliss Posts: 12,364	I vote for the complete bulldozer treatment. Yes, I have a few rides that I enjoy there, but once you start down that road you have each fan asking that something remain. That place is bad voodoo and needs to be wiped clean before it can be made into a true themed Disney park. No offence, Traci. I know there are plenty of people that enjoy it there, but I've been to DLP and I know what a real modern budget can do when creating a theme park experience. __________________ The second star to the right shines in the night for you
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11-30-2006, 09:33 AM	#9
Cadaverous Pallor ohhhh baby Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Parental Bliss Posts: 12,364	Great, your thread made me go read Al's report, and he always depresses me. Even after I started to feel good about the Pirate Island concept, the rest of it just makes me mad and sad. Lame. __________________ The second star to the right shines in the night for you
	Submit to Quotes

11-30-2006, 10:00 AM	#10
Gemini Cricket ... Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,244	How about we just follow Joni Mitchell's advice? "Pave Paradise (Pier) and put up a parking lot." Ha ha.
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