A Prop 8 challenge for swankers

[alphabassettgrrl]

My "no" sign went up in my yard this afternoon. I hope it lasts until the election. I saw the "no" sign near the university campus has disappeared, replaced a bit further down the road with a "yes".

The "no" and Democratic groups have also recieved a donation from me, so that's double good!

[Chernabog]

I also donated again today. I think you can do it directly on noonprop8.com (and also view the new ad narrated by Samuel Jackson). These ads are all much better than the mamsy-pamsy crap that the No on 8 camp was putting out initially.

[Andrew]

This (http://www.sfgate.com/webdb/prop8/) purports to be a searchable database of everyone who has contributed for or against Prop 8, however I can't find my own name (http://www.sfgate.com/webdb/prop8/?appSession=158441952981004) (three donations totalling $150) or my mom's (http://www.sfgate.com/webdb/prop8/?appSession=449441954181093) (one, $100) either. It could be useful in determining which businesses to boycott for supporting it, but I am having trouble getting any useful results.

[Chernabog]

Yeah that database is odd as I don't appear for multiple donations (though I love how only 3 out of pages and pages of people in Valley Village donated for prop 8).

[Ghoulish Delight]

Bill Clinton just called and asked me to vote no on 8.

[Morrigoon]

Watch the other videos by the people that did the one GC linked, they're all funny. And have the best. slogan. ever.

Here's another cute YouTube ad (by someone else):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU4udzEbcdQ

[Morrigoon]

Have you guys seen this more recent ad? Caught it on tv yesterday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj-0xMrsyxE

(can't remember if anyone else posted this yet)

[Morrigoon]

Haha... another ad by the people GC linked earlier.

Seem familiar?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cILkvO-tSw

[Cadaverous Pallor]

This one isn't as good but she said "yoinking"! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOnOA4wwC9c&feature=related)

[Gemini Cricket]

Spreading the word about the Yes on 8 fliers out there that imply that Obama supports the Yes on 8 campaign. Obama has stated that he is opposed to Prop 8.

Spread the word.

Many of you know that the “Yes” campaign recently mailed a full-page, full-color, two-sided flier aimed at the African American voter.

The first side has a HUGE picture of Obama, with a large caption saying Obama is against same-sex marriage – they fail to explain that Obama is against Prop 8 however. The second side contains several endorsements from African American religious and political leaders.

The statewide campaign cannot generate an in-kind (e.g. snail mail) response. Their plan is to run a TV spot and pass out palm cards at the polls to rebut the “Yes” flier. This is great, but we can do more.

Attached is a two-sided newsletter which details Obama’s as well as other politicians’ stance on Prop 8 (an unequivocal NO), includes endorsements from African American religious leaders, the Latino community, and an explanation of what the Bible really says about same-sex marriage (nothing).

Please do two things:

(1) Print out this flier, make copies, and distribute ASAP before election day. I plan to walk my entire neighborhood and leave one at every house. Remember, this is a targeted piece for the African American and Latino Christian demographics. So if you received the Yes flier described above, you neighbors are probably good targets for the No newsletter as well. If not, think about where you can reach out and distribute to the appropriate demographic. (We have limited time left, so let’s make sure we hit the right audience).

(2) Forward this e-mail (with attachment) to your CA friends and ask them to do the same!

Thank you, thank you, thank you all for your continued hard work!

We can win. And together we will!

Will
<><><><><><><><><><><><><>

In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence
of our friends. - - * Martin Luther King, Jr.

Please support equality and the right to marry.
Vote no on Prop 8.
www.lovehonorcherish.org (http://www.lovehonorcherish.org/)

<><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Will Proctor
2121 Maine Avenue
Long Beach, CA90806

(213) 840-0330 (c)
(562) 218-3333 (h)
(562) 218-6666 (f)

wproctor@alumni.law.upenn.edu (wproctor@alumni.law.upenn.edu)
wproctor@alumni.cmu.edu (wproctor@alumni.cmu.edu)

[Strangler Lewis]

GC, maybe this is expedient, but it's BS. Obama says he's opposed to gay marriage. Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act. The Bible says nothing about same sex marriage because it says that homosexuality is an abomination. Who is this ad supposed to appeal to/trick?

[Chernabog]

It is supposed to be a response to the lies of the Yes on 8 campaign, these statements aren't coming out of the blue. When someone says that Obama supports prop 8 when Obama does not, that is a lie. When someone says that gay marriage is talked about in the bible, when it is not, that is a lie.

I've read blogs and chatted with many people who don't believe in gay marriage but are voting no on 8 because they don't believe that their view of marriage should control everyone's, or that something discriminatory should be written into the CA Constitution, or that gay people getting married (even though they don't see it as a religious/"real" marriage) doesn't affect their own religious/"real" marriage. Saying you don't believe in gay marriage and a "yes" vote are not inextricably linked. Obama, Clinton, Biden, Schwartzenegger (who vetoed a bill which would legalize gay marriage, the bastard), etc. can believe that a "no" vote is the proper vote.

So nobody's being "tricked" here.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

GC, maybe this is expedient, but it's BS. Obama says he's opposed to gay marriage. Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act. The Bible says nothing about same sex marriage because it says that homosexuality is an abomination. Who is this ad supposed to appeal to/trick?Obama officially opposes prop 8. (http://www.sacbee.com/111/story/1051404.html)

We got a recorded call from Bill Clinton urging us to vote no on prop 8.

There's no trick involved. Yes, they both have a less than helpful history on the issue, but they both officially oppose the prop.

[Strangler Lewis]

Clinton called me, too, and I hung up on him. When he signed the Defense of Marriage Act, I wrote him a critical letter. His fence sitting response was that he did not support discrimination against gay people. However, he said, the bill came before him and he signed it. Then, crickets. No attempt to reconcile the two responses. His support now is hypocritical garbage given that, even if 8 loses, the federal government does not have to recognize California's same sex marriages.

As for Obama, I submit that when someone is asked if they support gay marriage, the question is do they support gays being allowed to enter into state-recognized marriage. If someone says "No, I don't support gay marriage," that means they do not support gays being allowed to enter into state-recognized marriage. One can, perhaps, answer "I don't care what the state does, but I would object to my church performing such ceremonies," but, to my knowledge, Obama did not offer that refinement. If he's offering it now, it's inconsistent with what he said before.

I also don't see it as a terrible distortion to say that the Bible is against same sex marriage when it's against same sex sex. The No on 8 approach should not be about Bible study pilpul.

[innerSpaceman]

Really, it's complete Bullsh!t that Obama's against Prop 8. He doesn't support Gay Marriage, i.e., he supports Prop 8. Less talking out of both side of his mouth might make me less disposed to not vote for him Tuesday.

[Gemini Cricket]

Sacha Baron Cohen crashes Yes on 8 rally!
Source (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/3369960/Sacha-Baron-Cohens-Bruno-crashes-gay-marriage-ban-rally.html)
:evil:

[scaeagles]

Really, it's complete Bullsh!t that Obama's against Prop 8. He doesn't support Gay Marriage, i.e., he supports Prop 8. Less talking out of both side of his mouth might make me less disposed to not vote for him Tuesday.


One of the big things that has turned me off to McCain is his illegal immigration crap.....he plays both sides of that issue in completely non spinable ways.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Sacha Baron Cohen crashes Yes on 8 rally!
Source (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/3369960/Sacha-Baron-Cohens-Bruno-crashes-gay-marriage-ban-rally.html)
:evil:Aww, the article doesn't even say what his sign said!

Regarding Clinton and Obama's anti-gay marriage stances...I really do think times are changing regarding gay rights and that in the midst of it there is going to be some leftover debris from an earlier age. The electorate that is coming of age isn't going to let this crap go on for much longer and it's just a matter of time.

If either of them were for prop 8 I'd be seriously pissed off. But they are not, and they're not sitting on the fence either. Even though they both have a poor past on the issue, they are both against the prop, and to me, that's progress.

Ask McCain or Palin about their stance, contrast, compare.

[innerSpaceman]

I'm not saying McCain's better on the issue. I'm saying nothing turns me off about a politician much more than taking BOTH sides of an issue via cowardice or expediency.

I understand Obama thinks he can't get elected if he supports gay marriage. But coming out against Prop 8 IS supporting existing gay marriage rights. He can't have it both ways ... at least not with me. Ugh, he's not president-elect till tomorrow and already the lies start.

[Kevy Baby]

Regardless of whether either candidate comes out for or against Prop 8, to me it is (mostly) irrelevant. I don't want my Presidential candidate to be focusing on a state issue Yes, this can/will be a national issue at some point, but it isn't right now. My decision as to who I should vote for as President is NOT going to be based on their position on California's Proposition 8.

[Kevy Baby]

There were a lot of new "Yes on 8" signs that popped up last night in front of our property (I live in a condo).

There were a lot of hand-made "No on 8" signs that appeared along Imperial Hwy in Brea (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=imperial+highway,+brea,+ca&ie=UTF8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ll=33.914224,-117.896401&spn=0.006651,0.008047&t=h&z=17). Most of them used familiar catch phrases for the cause, but I was amused by the one that read "Insert Witty Slogan - Vote No on 8."

[BarTopDancer]

Yesterday I saw a lot more No on 8 signs, quite a few of them were near Yes on 8 signs. I also saw a lot more hand made signs.

I have to say that a lot of people have been surprising me with their decision to vote no. They aren't religious but they aren't people you would automatically assume they would be voting no. I've lost one friend over this (she deleted me from her Facebook and won't return my communication attempts) and the only other person I know [of] who is voting Yes is my co-worker, who [as I listed above] has beliefs beyond "the church told me so".

[JWBear]

BTD,

I know how you must be feeling, because it happened to me. In 2004, I lost a very close friend because I wouldn’t vote to reelect President Bush. After 9/11 he became very conservative politically. It got to the point where every conversation became a political argument. Finally during a phone call one night, after I again stated I’d never vote for Bush, he got nasty and called me a “liberal wacko”. I hung up on him. He emailed me saying that he was ending our friendship because I “lacked the ability to communicate” (i.e.: I had an opinion different from his). It still hurts, but I realize now that it was for the best. Our relationship had become toxic. Hang in there. Real friends will respect your opinions, even if they do not agree with them.

[Kevy Baby]

On Saturday evening, we pulled up to some Yes protesters. I rolled down my window (much to S's consternation) and asked "Why do you want to take away people's rights?" The response was, of course, that they weren't taking away people's right's. There were more words exchanged of course, but I don't recall the rest.

[Gemini Cricket]

I can't express enough how great it feels to see my friends and even some family members showing their passionate support for the No on 8 campaign. It makes me smile. No matter what happens tomorrow, I'll be okay because I know I'm lucky to be in such good company.
:)

[katiesue]

Saw hand painted on the back windshield of a car yesterday "I didn't vote on your marriage".

On my Yes on 8 streetcorner on the way to work the No's had taken over one corner again. They're more of a ragtag bunch with handmade signs but they're more energetic than the bland Yes on 8 peeps with their pre-made signs.

[Gemini Cricket]

On the way over to Erik's on Saturday, I noticed several Yes signs surrounding the creepy white Stepford Family statue that guards Foothill Ranch. A few hours later, they were gone. That made me happy.

[katiesue]

Oh almost forgot - creepy bumper stickers yesterday. This car had like 5 of them plastered all over it. There were two creepy kid faces, a boy and a girl, the sticker said "Pleeeaaaseee give us a Mommy and a Daddy".

The kids were creepy looking and it made no sense anyway. There are tons of single parent families, for whatever reason, are you going make them all marry someone of the opposite sex?

[Gemini Cricket]

Hundreds of Mormon Moms Rally Against Prop. 8 in Salt Lake City
More than 600 Mormon moms, their gay sons and daughters, and allies rallied against Proposition 8 in Salt Lake City on Sunday -- a sharp contrast to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' effort to pass the California ballot measure.
The Salt Lake Tribune reports that the candlelight vigil was held in the city's Library Square and was organized by mothers disappointed in the church's muscular support of Prop. 8, which would eliminate the right of gay people to marry. The Mormon church has donated millions of dollars to the Yes on 8 campaign.
"This is what happens when people in California say mean things about our gay kids. Mothers come out of the closet," Millie Watts, one of the organizers, said at the event, according to the Tribune. Watts told the paper that she feels "disappointment and betrayal" at her church's involvement in Prop. 8.
Linda Barney, another mom who spoke at the rally, told the Tribune that her heart "reaches out to young Californians, teens who are not out of the closet who are alone...listening to hateful [rhetoric]," adding, "They need to hear from us. They need to know there are people with loving hearts."
The Salt Lake City event was one of several rallies that occurred on Sunday in support of, or in opposition to, Prop. 8. (The Advocate)

Source (http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid64847.asp)

[MouseWife]

BTD & JWBear;

I haven't posted in a bit, been in a whirlwind of schtuff.

But, my sister, who I sent the email, to, well, I've lost her over other less important things before. But, at first she said the email that I sent her kept freezing the computer {it was her email, just forwarded back to her}. When she finally received it, she said I was wrong.

But, seriously, I have lost her before over other things, always, not going along with her. Or, making her happy.

Once, I sent her one of those happy emails about sisterly love/friendship and her response to me was 'I haven't felt that way in a long time'.

Funny, cause I know people who I see rarely, even if after years, and, it is always the same, we never dislike someone because we haven't been able to chat or hang out.

The damn yes signs, all over the main road. Isn't that illegal? It is public property. I don't think people should be allowed to put them out there.

I am maybe going to take my son to election central tomorrow night. I think that, as like some others here, I want to be with others when things come down.

[Not Afraid]

I'm picking up a No on 8 sign from my client. I live close to the local polling place. Better late than never.

Another client left me a note that said "Please take down the Obama sign in our window after he wins the election". :)

[Morrigoon]

There is an effort to reach out on election day, but which requires attending training tonight. If anyone wants to participate, pm me and I'll forward the info.

[BarTopDancer]

I think I'm going to a gaybar with my friend tomorrow night. I'm a little scared about being there if 8 passes. Though I would hope they would know I'm not the moron who voted yes.

[JWBear]

I think I'm going to a gaybar with my friend tomorrow night. I'm a little scared about being there if 8 passes. Though I would hope they would know I'm not the moron who voted yes.

Like anyone who votes "yes" would be in a gay bar.....

[BarTopDancer]

Like anyone who votes "yes" would be in a gay bar.....

You would think...

They know me there, but still.

[blueerica]

Interestingly, ABC out here went with a story about Mormon moms with homosexual children. They're holding a vigil against Prop 8.

I haven't seen the story for myself, yet, but I'm sure it'll get more coverage as I heard a radio ad for Fox running a similar storyline. Doubtful it'll be on our NBC affiliate as it is essentially run by the church.

[Morrigoon]

They've reached a whole new level of appalling behavior... the yes people just hired a skywriter to write:

"Save traditional marriage
Vote yes on prop 8"

OVER DISNEYLAND :mad:

Then they circled and started writing again.

(Disneyphile is there today and called to share this info)

[Gemini Cricket]

The LA Times endorses NO on Prop 8:
Clever magicians practice the art of misdirection -- distracting the eyes of the audience to something attention-grabbing but irrelevant so that no one notices what the magician is really doing. Look over at that fuchsia scarf, up this sleeve, at anything besides the actual trick.

The campaign promoting Proposition 8, which proposes to amend the state Constitution to ban same-sex marriages, has masterfully misdirected its audience, California voters. Look at the first-graders in San Francisco, attending their lesbian teacher's wedding! Look at Catholic Charities, halting its adoption services in Massachusetts, where same-sex marriage is legal! Look at the church that lost its tax exemption over gay marriage! Look at anything except what Proposition 8 is actually about: a group of people who are trying to impose on the state their belief that homosexuality is immoral and that gays and lesbians are not entitled to be treated equally under the law.Source (http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-ed-prop8-2-2008nov02,0,5926932.story)

It's a good write up that highlights the lies the Yes camp has been spewing.

[BarTopDancer]

I ended up calling the cops on a huge Yes on 8 demonstration at an intersection near my office.

It all started out 'innocently enough'. I was arguing with kids about it. Those poor kids were so misinformed (not surprised). I told them that churches will not be forced to marry gay people, nor should they and they should research state and federal laws - just because something happened in MA doesn't mean it will happen here. I also asked them why someone would want to get married in a place where people don't approve of their relationship. I saw the look in their eyes changed when I was talking to them. I probably shouldn't have told them their parents are homophobic and their parents and church are telling them lies.

While I was arguing with them I saw the protesters (kids too) impeding the flow of traffic by standing(kids too) in the crosswalks preventing people from turning right, which in turn was backing up traffic to another stoplight. Close to 100 people were in a very small intersection at rush hour was creating a huge traffic hazard and putting kids in danger. All I said when I called was that there was a very large political demonstration at x location that is causing a traffic hazard by standing in the street and putting kids in danger.

[Kevy Baby]

I ended up calling the cops on a huge Yes on 8 demonstration at an intersection near my office.

<snip>

While I was arguing with them I saw the protesters (kids too) impeding the flow of traffic by standing(kids too) in the crosswalks preventing people from turning right, which in turn was backing up traffic to another stoplight. Close to 100 people were in a very small intersection at rush hour was creating a huge traffic hazard and putting kids in danger. All I said when I called was that there was a very large political demonstration at x location that is causing a traffic hazard by standing in the street and putting kids in danger.Would you have called the cops if they were protesting No on 8?

[BarTopDancer]

Would you have called the cops if they were protesting No on 8?

I was annoyed enough that they were making the intersection such a cluster that if No on 8 were standing in the road blocking traffic, I would have most likely reported it like I did - people, including kids are impeeding the flow of traffic.

That intersection is bad enough at 5pm, it doesn't need idiots in the street blocking traffic to make it worse.

[alphabassettgrrl]

Standing on streetcorners is fine, blocking traffic not so much.

[Disneyphile]

They've reached a whole new level of appalling behavior... the yes people just hired a skywriter to write:

"Save traditional marriage
Vote yes on prop 8"

OVER DISNEYLAND :mad:

Then they circled and started writing again.

(Disneyphile is there today and called to share this info)Here's an example of what caused massive disruption and upset for most guests and CMs around me:

https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo04/79/fc/38d769a4a068.jpeg

I already can't stand the "Yes on 8" bigots. But, today, they crossed the line to damn near pure hatred by me for bringing their ****ing hatred to the skies over Disneyland. I don't think any political **** belongs in Disneyland, let alone political **** that spouts such horrible messages such as this lowly crap. It's a good thing I didn't see any sign-carriers on my drive home, because it would have taken everything to hold me back from driving over to them and ripping their ****ing heads off. (Yeah, it takes a lot to get me this pissed, and I'm pissed.)

However, from what I could see, most guests and CMs were very upset over it, so hopefully that will be a sign that this proposition won't pass.

My sister even brought up a good point - she works with severely handicapped children who are results of extreme abuse in "traditional" marriages who were conceived and not wanted or not planned. She deals with kids with smashed-in heads, etc., because the "traditional spouse" chose to repeatedly slam them against a wall or floor. She said that with gay marriages, there is no chance for an unwanted or unplanned child, and that she trusts gays more than "traditional" marriages because of that.

[Gemini Cricket]

So, I had an idea and I'm giving it a whirl over at Facebook.
I'm sending people messages to see if they will (for just tonight and tomorrow) change their Profile Pictures to this:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/braddoc310/fb_prop8_logo_button.gif

I figured it's worth a shot. Everyone sees the Profile Pic. It goes everywhere.

Visibility! United front! No on 8!

:)

[alphabassettgrrl]

DP- I'm sorry. That's awful. I agree that politics is not well suited to Disney.

One more day.

[Disneyphile]

I hope they at least lost some "yes" votes because of it. It's just so beyond tacky.

[BarTopDancer]

Done.

[Kevy Baby]

So, I had an idea and I'm giving it a whirl over at Facebook.
I'm sending people messages to see if they will (for just tonight and tomorrow) change their Profile Pictures to this:I would, but I am not in Facebook, LiveJournal, or any other on line presence.

Sorry :(

[Gemini Cricket]

16 people so far did it.
I am all teary-eyed.
:) :blush:

[Alex]

I haven't seen that kind of skywriting before. Is it essentially a dot matrix printer out the back of the plane?

[Disneyphile]

I haven't seen that kind of skywriting before. Is it essentially a dot matrix printer out the back of the plane?That's about what it looked like.

[Kevy Baby]

I haven't seen that kind of skywriting before. Is it essentially a dot matrix printer out the back of the plane?You've never seen that? Maybe it is a So Cal thing as I have seen this type for years.

Yes, it is basically several planes (five it looks like in this case) flying together putting out puffs of smoke in synchronization.

[Alex]

Honestly, it has probably been years since I've seen skywriting of any type and that was at Disneyland and it was the traditional write it out type.

Outside of LA I've probably seen skywriting used maybe a half dozen times in my life.

[Chernabog]

Yeah, amazing how all that money can go into good things like hurting the faggots, rather than stuff like education, or feeding the homeless. Some of these bastards put their LIFE SAVINGS into hurting the fvcking queers, it means that much to them. It isn't that just some people hate you, it's that so goddamn MANY people hate you because of something that doesn't affect them.

It is really difficult not to hate them back, because right know I really, really do. I'm absolutely seething.

[Disneyphile]

It is really difficult not to hate them back, because right know I really, really do. I'm absolutely seething.I hear you. I was already to the edge before today, and after the biggest in-your-face display of bigotry that I've ever witnessed, I'm now over that edge.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I haven't seen that kind of skywriting before. Is it essentially a dot matrix printer out the back of the plane?
Better than that, it's a dot matrix printer out the back of several planes at once. It's pretty astounding to watch, when it's not spewing hate.

ETA: oops, didn't see the next page before replying

[Kevy Baby]

There were a lot of new "Yes on 8" signs that popped up last night in front of our property (I live in a condo).They were there still this morning, but when I returned home from work, they were gone. Had they not been gone, I would have removed them. Yes, it would have been illegal, but I would have done it anyways.

But someone beat me to it.

[innerSpaceman]

On a personal front ... things are heating up among another group of friends of mine that includes a few ... ahem ... MORMONS.


This could get ugly. I hope and pray things turn out ok tomorrow.

[Morrigoon]

So, I had an idea and I'm giving it a whirl over at Facebook.
I'm sending people messages to see if they will (for just tonight and tomorrow) change their Profile Pictures to this:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/braddoc310/fb_prop8_logo_button.gif

I figured it's worth a shot. Everyone sees the Profile Pic. It goes everywhere.

Visibility! United front! No on 8!

:)
Done

[Deebs]

16 people so far did it.
I am all teary-eyed.
:) :blush:

+1

[keith - SuPeR K!]

I changed my profile image on Facebook and MySpace to the NO on 8 button. I also tagged everyone I knew was supporting the NO on 8 campaign in the the photo so it would appear in their friends' news feeds ;)

[CoasterMatt]

At the corner of Ventura Blvd. and Topanga Canyon this afternoon, there were a TON of Yes on 8 signs, those stupid things that say "Protect Marriage"- I got off the bus for a bit to have some fun with the supporters.

I went to Office Depot, down the street, got a sheet of posterboard, and with my handy Sharpie, whipped up my own sign.

One side - "Protect Justice- NO ON 8"

Other side - "Keep Seperate Church And State - NO ON 8"

[Morrigoon]

MOTHERF*CKERS!... They pushed their yes ads into my myspace too!

Okay guys, remember that they pay for click-throughs... so click away, cost them money!

[Morrigoon]

I also sent out a No On 8 bulletin

[Isaac]

Prop 8 Spokesman Compares Gays To Hitler


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_VZoqKQCTw

[Morrigoon]

Can Godwin's law be applied to elections? He automatically loses, right?

[Gemini Cricket]

Prop 8 Spokesman Compares Gays To Hitler


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_VZoqKQCTw
Isaac,
What this guy fails to remember is that homosexuals were also in Hitler's concentration camps. It's desperate of him to link gays to Hitler.
I hope that video stays around until his children and their children can see it and realize that he is a bigot.

[Chernabog]

I think it's funny that on (other) boards people are offended when you call them a homophobic bigot for voting yes on 8. I'm just tellin' it like it is!

I mean, if you told an African-American that he/she couldn't marry their white significant other because God had made the races separate for a reason, then... omigod you'd be a fvcking racist bigot (or living before the 1960s in the South). And sorry, but the "I have a black friend!" thing isn't gonna make you any less of one, dumba$$.

[Kevy Baby]

And sorry, but the "I have a black friend!" thing isn't gonna make you any less of one, dumba$$.I am always highly amused by this line (or "I have gay friends"). My response is that I don't have any black (gay) friends. I do have some friends who happen to be black (gay), but I don't keep score.

[BarTopDancer]

If 8 fails (and I will say if, not when because it's so fvcking close) I think we need to have a Yes on 8 sign bonfire.

[Kevy Baby]

If 8 fails (and I will say if, not when because it's so fvcking close) I think we need to have a Yes on 8 sign bonfire.All the ones I've seen are made of plastic. Either way, I would choose to not pollute.

[BarTopDancer]

Aww. Boo plastic.

Is 8 a majority rule to fail/pass or must have x% of the vote to fail/pass?

[JWBear]

It must pass with 50% plus 1.

[Moonliner]

Honestly, it has probably been years since I've seen skywriting of any type and that was at Disneyland and it was the traditional write it out type.

Outside of LA I've probably seen skywriting used maybe a half dozen times in my life.

I wonder what happened to the "No Fly Zone" around Disneyland.

Also, did anyone catch the Daily show last night? He did a bit on Prop-8.

There is a link at http://www.thedailyshow.com/


Prop-8 Has been boosted by donations from the Mormons, because if there is one core value the Mormons have always had it's that marriage should be between one man and errr, uhhhh

[blueerica]

No on 8 signs in Steve Young's yard... Woo! (http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10881014)

(Of course, all my news comes with a Mormon filter LOL)

[BarTopDancer]

Who the fvck is Steve Young?

Of course all my posts regarding anything to do with the state of UT come with a profanity non-filter. ;)

[Strangler Lewis]

Who the fvck is Steve Young?


He played an American sport, B.

MF'ing Steve Young (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Biyx-UPrYf4)

Watch the run at 0:43.

More to the point, Steve Young is a moderate Republican whom people assume will run for office. Also, since he didn't get married until his late 30s, there was a lot of speculation that he was gay.

[blueerica]

And he's something of a 'Mormon hero'... or so I've been told.

[innerSpaceman]

Then he's definitely gay. His wife's a beard.

All the mormons are gay. Methinks they doth protest too much.


If they can't have 20 wives, they won't have none ... I think that's their new creed as they breed their wives for duty, then go on to their secret cocksvcking pleasures.





(Yes, I'm none too happy with Mormons today)

[SzczerbiakManiac]

did anyone catch the Daily show last night? He did a bit on Prop-8.Here's the direct link to that clip (http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=189782&title=i-now-denounce-you-chucklarry).

[Gn2Dlnd]

If it passes I'll be at Santa Monica and San Vicente tomorrow, marching towards the Mormon Temple in Westwood.

If I can get a couple thousand friends to join me, that is.

We didn't get arrested during the AB101 marches, I doubt that a peaceful, i.e., no destruction of property, march would get us arrested now.

Nice, easy, beginner protest march, straight down Santa Monica Blvd. and back. I'm thinking 4 or 5 in the evening. Fvcks up traffic all kinds of ways. "You don't like being stuck in traffic? Go home and tell your wife!"

[innerSpaceman]

A friend of mine texted me to say he and a pal went around town last night and removed about 60 Yes on 8 signs. Says his hands are dirty.

I've been tempted to do the same, but have always resisted. Yet I can't say I wasn't tickled to learn of this. So I texted back, "But your soul is clean."


He responded that, in all seriousness, his hands were covered in this oily gunk that coats the signposts, and was really hard to get off.

I wrote back, "Yes, but still easier to remove than the stain on some people's hearts."


We have Mormon friends in common. Le sigh.

[BarTopDancer]

Someone stuck a Yes on 8 sign on our office property. I got to take it down. It felt good to crumple it up.

And now a Jeep with Yes on 8 signs all over it is driving around my business park honking an air horn for attention.

[~MS~]

I love it, I drove Missy to her program this morning and there was a long row of 'yes on 8' signs...and someone had gone thru and did the big red circle with the slash on each and every one!

[BarTopDancer]

OC Voter turn out way down. (http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Not_Over_Yet_But_OC_Voter_Turnout_Way_Down.html)

What a surprise! The Orange County Registrar says as of 3 p.m. only 28 percent of those eligible to vote have gone to the polls here. If you turn the calendar back to the last general election in 2004, there was a turnout of 44 percent at the same time of day. The comparisons mean either there will be a huge rush this evening, or voters in the OC have become suddenly complacent.

The oddity is that we saw dozens of folks driving to the Registrar's Santa Ana office this morning as if hell or high water couldn't keep them from voting.

What's it all mean?

We'll know better after the absentee ballots are counted at 8 p.m. Those voters tend to skew conservative, so let' s wait and see which way the political winds are blowing once the polls close.

GET OUT AND VOTE IF YOU LIVE IN OC!

[Kevy Baby]

GET OUT AND VOTE IF YOU LIVE IN OC!Unless you are voting yes on 8, in which case your election is tomorrow

[JWBear]

I just got back from voting. (I left work early at 3:30.) A very short line at our polling place - about 4-5 people in front of us.

[innerSpaceman]

Yep, OC voters please stay home. Your Selfish Conservative Ways of Rule are Over (for now), so go hide in your McMansions and don't come out till January 20.

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Too late, but I found this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q28UwAyzUkE) kind of chilling.

[Gemini Cricket]

This is early but....

Yes: 57%
No: 43%

(CNN.com)

[SzczerbiakManiac]

I think I'm gonna be sick.

[BarTopDancer]

2% reporting. But still :(

[BarTopDancer]

From Andrew - results by area (http://vote.sos.ca.gov/Returns/props/map190000000008.htm)

[JWBear]

Remember... If it passes, it will be immediately challenged in court. All is not lost.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I'm sad about 8. Very, very sad. Why are so many people so full of hate, or so stupid that they can be swayed by these morons?

:( We'll have to fight it.

[Disneyphile]

There's a gay guy over at a fairly large message board who is in full support of 8.

I think that pisses me off even worse.

[JWBear]

Most of the counties that are reporting so far are heavily red counties. There is still hope.

[JWBear]

Yes 54%
No 46%

The gap is closing! When San Francisco and the other 90% of LA (nearly 1/4 of the state population) reports in, I think we'll see better results.

[Gn2Dlnd]

I'm halftomistic.

But ready to act up, if need be.

[BarTopDancer]

Yes 54%
No 46%

The gap is closing! When San Francisco and the other 90% of LA (nearly 1/4 of the state population) reports in, I think we'll see better results.

LA isn't done? I can't find an interactive map by county that works.

[Not Afraid]

16.8% ( 4283 of 25429 ) precincts
reporting as of Nov. 4, 2008, at 9:08 p.m.

8 (http://www.voterguide.sos.ca.gov/title-sum/prop8-title-sum.htm)Y Eliminates Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry1,428,88554.9%1,177,52545.1%Map (http://vote.sos.ca.gov/Returns/props/map190000000008.htm)

[BarTopDancer]

It's not loading for any of us where I am :(

[Morrigoon]

I'm not liking the numbers, last I saw was 55%, but only like 10% reporting.

Hopefully that means only Fresno was in?

[Morrigoon]

ABC is tracking results (http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/elections/vote08/results?r=Propositions)

[BarTopDancer]

But not by county. I want by county!!!!!!!

[Not Afraid]

Secretary of State official results (http://vote.sos.ca.gov/Returns/props/59.htm) (where the last info came from)

[JWBear]

Go here. (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/individual/#CAI01) It works fine. I also can't get the SOS site to work.

[belleh5]

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/ballot.measures/

Updated 4 mins ago

55% YES
45% NO

[BarTopDancer]

Secretary of State official results (http://vote.sos.ca.gov/Returns/props/59.htm) (where the last info came from)

It's not working for any of us. :(

Go here. (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/individual/#CAI01) It works fine.

Thank you!!!!!!

[Morrigoon]

okay, less than 10% of precincts reporting, after checking abc and cbs.

[Not Afraid]

I'm VERY disappointed in LA County. But, the OC number is just astonishing - and GROSS! I ****ing HATE OC.

[Kevy Baby]

Secretary of State official results (http://vote.sos.ca.gov/Returns/props/59.htm) (where the last info came from)

It's not working for any of us. :(Works fine for me. Once again: proof that the Mac is a superior platform :D

[flippyshark]

OMG - This is such a sh!tty load on an otherwise fantastic night. I'm going to bed now, but I hope this has pulled together by tomorrow morning. (*sigh*)

[belleh5]

Sacramento Voted

56% Yes
44% No

WTF!!:mad:

[Kevy Baby]

WTF!!:mad:I blame STC

[belleh5]

STC?

[JWBear]

Back down to 54/46 per CNN.

[Morrigoon]

15% reporting, still 55% assh0le

edit: err.... 54%

[Kevy Baby]

STC?SacTown Chronic (http://www.loungeoftomorrow.com/LoT/member.php?u=29)

[belleh5]

What is wrong with this country??

Arizona Proposition 102:
Ban on Gay Marriage 56% Yes, 44% No

Arkansas Initiative 1:
Ban on Gay Couples Adopting Children 57% Yes, 43% No

Florida Amendment 2:
Ban on Gay Marriage 62% Yes, 38% No

[Morrigoon]

Shame, shame

[Kevy Baby]

OK, this is a little odd.
The CA SOS site reports:
23.2% Reporting
1,698,447 - Yes
1,421,309 - No

The CNN site reports:
22% Reporting
1,943,806 - Yes
1,655,645 - No

How do higher counts provide a lower percentage?

[belleh5]

2 Counties left, Sutter and Mono.....

[JWBear]

LA county is only at 10% reporting (per CNN). With 1/4 of the state's population, it would only take a move of a few percentage points to the "no" column in LA to tip the whole state.

[Kevy Baby]

2 Counties left, Sutter and Mono.....I am not sure what you are looking at. There are several counties not reporting. And of those who are, none are anywhere near complete (see JWB's 10% of LA County for example).

[Kevy Baby]

And according to the CA SOS site, the percentage is now:
53.4 - Yes
46.6 - No

[belleh5]

CNN, Maybe I should put my glasses on. :blush:

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/county/#CAI01map

[Morrigoon]

I'm VERY disappointed in LA County. But, the OC number is just astonishing - and GROSS! I ****ing HATE OC.
Check Marin County. OC is downright progressive by comparison.

Shame on the whole fvcking state.

[Kevy Baby]

Check Marin County. OC is downright progressive by comparison.And Shasta is not far behind

[belleh5]

SF ROCKS!!

75% NO

[JWBear]

Here's a map of LA county precincts that have reported. (http://www.lavote.net/VOTER/PDFS/Red_Box_Mapping.pdf)

[Morrigoon]

53-47 with 25% reporting! Move baby move! Maybe LA can save it?

[JWBear]

53-47 with 25% reporting! Move baby move! Maybe LA can save it?

I'm hoping!

[Kevy Baby]

CA SOS with 28.5% reporting:
52.5% - Yes
47.5% - No

[Alex]

Check Marin County. OC is downright progressive by comparison.

Be aware that the CNN page does not always list Yes first then No. The first listed is always teh one in the lead. Marin County has voted 73% No so far.

[Kevy Baby]

Modoc is 74.8% Yes

[Morrigoon]

Alex: thanks, I was misreading and getting totally disgusted

[BarTopDancer]

Fvckin religious nazijackholelyingSoBs of Orange County.

On behalf of the population of OC who thinks taking away rights is WRONG, I apologize. I do not represent nor associate with such twatwaffles.

I am LIVID!

It sounds like they have 3.2 million left to count in LA county.

[Alex]

If CNN's county numbers are right then Napa and Santa Cruz have barely begun. Most of the other Bay Area counties have a long way to go still.

Hoping, hoping, hoping.

[BarTopDancer]

Watching the people cheering that 8 is passing makes me want to puke.

[Gemini Cricket]

It seems like Prop 8 is going to pass.
But please remember that this isn't the end of the fight. This matter will go before the courts again.
Also it's important to remember who supported 8 and fight back. Find out which hotel magnate supported the Yes campaign and never stay at any of his hotels. And avoid any support of any Mormon run business, charities... heck I don't even buy CDs by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.
Yes, some people will say that this is me being close-minded and petty. But I feel that this course of action will make the people who think we don't count, who think that our relationships are not as important as theirs take notice and realize that they are 100% wrong in this matter.

Also, think on these people (http://www.noonprop8.com/about/who-opposes-prop-8) as allies. You want to send a gift to someone who has everything? Donate a gift to one of these organizations in their name. Volunteer at these organizations. Write them a thank you note. There's so much you can do.

If you're mad, do something about it.

[Gemini Cricket]

Yes on 8 Supporters:
Churches & Ministries



A. V. Alpha & Omega Ministries, Palmdale
Abundant Life Assembly of God, Copeland
All Seasons Ministries, El Cajon
Alpha and Omega Arlington Apostolic Church, Riverside
Alpine Anglican Church, Alpine
Amador Family Fellowship
Baldwin Park Church of Christ
Bethel Christian Fellowship
Bible Fellowship Church, Ventura
Biggs Community Assembly of God
Bright Mission Chapel
Bundy Canyon Christian Church and School, Wildomar
Calvary Assembly of God
Calvary Assembly, Milpitas
Calvary Baptist Church
Calvary Baptist Church, Modesto
Calvary Chapel of the Harbour
Calvary Chapel Chino Hills
Calvary Chapel Rancho Santa Margarita
Calvary Christian Center
Calvary Church
Calvary Temple
Camarillo Community Church
Canopy of Prayer Ministries
Canyon View Church of Christ, San Diego
Cathedral of the Blessed Sacrament
Centerpoint Church
Central Baptist Church of Indio
Centro Cristiano Pan De Vida
Chapel in the Pines, Arnold
Chinese Evangelical Free Church, Monterey Park
Chinese Grace Bible Church, Sacramento
Christ Driven Church of Fowler Ca.
Christian Life Assembly
Christian Life Center
Christian Life Tools
Christian Outreach for Armenians, Glendale
Church of Christ, Upland
Church of the Living Christ
Church of the Living God of Perris
Church of the Nazarene
Church of the Rock
Church of Scientology of San Diego
Community Counseling Services, Inc.
Community Christian Alliance Church
Core Christian Fellowship, Murrieta
Cornerstone Baptist Church
Cornerstone Baptist Church, Nicholasville KY
Cornerstone Christian Church, El Dorado Hills
Cornerstone Community Church of San Clemente
Cornerstone Fellowship, Livermore
CrossPoint Community Church of the Nazarene
Dan Kricorian Ministries Int'l
Dayspring Christian Fellowship
Desert Stream Ministries
Destiny Faith Center
Divine Mercy Knights of Columbus (14158), Natomas
Door of Faith Ministries International
East Clairemont Baptist Church, San Diego
Eastside Christian Church
El Cajon Wesleyan Church, El Cajon
Elsinore Christian Center, Lake Elsinore
Evangelical Free Church of Walnut
Faith Chapel Church of God in Christ, San Diego
Faith Community Church by the Sea, Encinitas
Faith Tabernacle
Faith to Faith Fellowship, Temecula
F.C.F. Int'l Ministries
Filipino American Community Church
First Baptist Church Anaheim
First Baptist Church of Fillmore
First Baptist Church of Hesperia
First Baptist Church of Menlo Park
First Baptist Church of Taft
First Baptist Church, Lomita
First Evangelical Church of Cerritos
First Fil-Am Christian Church
First Foursquare Gospel Church of San Jose, San Jose
First Fundamental Bible Church of Monterey Park
First Presbyterian Church, Amarillo TX
First Southern Baptist, Yucca Valley
Fontana Foursquare Church
Foxworthy Baptist Church
Free Indeed Christian Fellowship, Perris
Freedom Community Christian Church, Perris
Freewill Missionary Baptist Church, San Diego
Freewill Missionary Baptist Church, San Diego
Friends Church, Yorba Linda
Friendship Christian Fellowship Church, Moreno Valley
Gem of the Valley Church, Murrieta
God’s Word Church, Apple Valley
Golden Altar Ministries, San Jose
Golden Gate Christian Church
Hamilton Square Baptist Church
Harvest Christian Fellowship
Heart of the Canyons Church
High Desert Church, Victorville
Highland Springs Fellowship, Banning
Hillsdale Baptist Church, North Highlands
Hope Vineyard Church, Santa Clarita
House of Luke, Hemet
Independent Church of Lake Elsinore
Irvine First Chinese Baptist Church
Joy Ministry for Christ, Los Angeles
Jubilee Family Church, Oskaloosa IA
Kingdom Conditioning Ministries, INC.
Koinonia Evangelistic Center, Moreno Valley
Lake Murray Church, Assemblies of God
Life Center Church, Lakewood
Light by the Bay Church, San Lorenzo
Lighthouse Assembly of God, Murrieta
Lighthouse Community Church, Lathrop
Live Ride Christian Church
Living Faith Christian Fellowship, Garden Grove
Living Stones Ministries
Living Word Christian Church, San Diego
Love and Unity Church of God in Christ, Compton
Luke Four Eighteen Ministries International, Temecula
Maranatha Chapel
Maranatha Chapel, Rancho Bernardo
Menlo Park Community Church of God in Christ, Menlo Park
Meridian Southern Baptist, El Cajon
Mount Pisgah Baptist Church, San Diego
Mountain View Community Church, Temecula
Mount Zion Assemblies
Napoleon Washington, Jr. Evangelistic Assn.
Nations Harvest Church, Sunnyvale
New Birth Kingdom Covenant
New Covenant Ministries Christian Fellowship
New Day Church
New Destiny Christian Church, Inc.
New Life Presbyterian Church
New Light Church of God, Riverside
New Seasons Church
Newhall Church of the Nazarene
New Venture Christian Fellowship
Northside Christian Church
Oasis of Faith Christian Center
Oroville Nazarene Church
Our Lady of the Redwoods Catholic Church
Our Redeemer Lives Church, Lake Elsinore
Paradise Hills Southern Baptist Church
Progressive M.B.C. of Berkeley
Rancho Baptist Church, Temecula
Ray of Hope Church, Pomona
Redemption Christian Fellowship
Refuge Ministries
Resurrection Power Ministries
Revival Christian Fellowship, Menifee
Ripon Grace Brethren Church
Rose Drive Friends Church, Yorba Linda
Rubidoux First Assembly of God
San Antonio Heights Community Church, San Bernardino
San Diego Christian Worship Center, San Diego
San Jose Church of Christ, San Jose
San Jose Foursquare Church, San Jose
San Jose Open Bible Church, San Jose
San Jose Word of Faith Christian Center, San Jose
San Mateo Pro Life
Santa Rosa Diocesan Council of Catholic Women
Set Free Ministries of San Diego, San Diego
Seventh Day Sabbath Second Advent Church
Sierra Madre Congregational Church
Shepherd of the Hills
Skyline Wesleyan Church, El Cajon
Solid Ground Brethren in Christ Church, Alta Loma
Sonoma Valley Community Church
South Coast Christian Assembly
South Valley Christian Church, San Jose
Southwest Christian Church, Temecula
Southwest Community Church, Indian Wells
Spirit Life Worship Center
St. Andrew Orthodox Church
St. Joseph Church
St Timothy Orthodox Church
St. Mary Catholic Church
St. Patrick's Church
State College Blvd. Church of Christ, Anaheim
Survivors of Assault Recovery/Living Word Christian Church, San Diego
TEN27 Church
The Bridge Church
The Calvary Chapel Churches
The Church of God of Prophecy, National City
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
The Home Church, Campbell
The Oasis Foursquare Church
The Rock Church, San Diego
Trinity Baptist Church
Tyler Baptist Church, Riverside
Valley Christian Church, Chino
Victory International Church, San Mateo
Victory Outreach of Eagle Rock
Vineyard Family Christian Fellowship, Downey
Vista Hope Church of the Nazarene
Voices of Hope Ministries
Whittier Church of Christ, Whittier
Wildwood Calvary Chapel
Windsor Hills Baptist Church, La Mesa
Word of Life Ministries Int’l, Riverside
Word of Truth Ministries
World Overcomers Church International
Zion Christian Fellowship, Spring Valley
Zion Lutheran Church, North Highlands, CA

[Gemini Cricket]

Yes on 8 Supporters:
Public Officials

State Senators

Senator Dick Ackerman
Senator Sam Aanestad
Senator Roy Ashburn
Senator James Battin, Jr.
Senator Dave Cogdill
Senator Dave Cox
Senator Jeff Denham
Senator Bob Dutton
Senator Tom Harman
Senator Dennis Hollingsworth
Senator Abel Maldonado
Senator Bob Margett
Senator Tom McClintock
Senator George Runner
Senator Mark Wyland

Assembly Members

Assemblyman Greg Aghzarian
Assemblyman Joel Anderson
Assemblyman John Benoit
Assemblyman Chuck Devore
Assemblyman Bill Emmerson
Assemblyman Guy Houston
Assemblyman Bob Huff
Assemblyman Rick Keene
Assemblyman Doug LaMalfa
Assemblyman Bill Maze
Assemblyman Mike Duvall
Assemblyman Alan Nakanishi
Assemblyman Roger Niello
Assemblyman George Plescia
Assemblywoman Sharon Runner
Assemblywoman Audra Strickland
Assemblyman Van Tran
Assemblyman Michael Villines
Assemblywoman Mimi Walters

Local Elected Officials

Mayor Candace Andersen, Town of Danville
Mayor Neil C. Blais, City of Rancho Santa Margarita
Michael Calta, Chino Valley Unified School District
Dick Daniels, Escondido Councilmember
Mayor Curt Hagman, City of Chino Hills
San Diego County Supervisor, Bill Horn (District 5)
Mayor Eric King, City of Folsom
Mayor Pro-Tem Dan Kirby, City of Monrovia
Placer County Supervisor Bruze Kranz (District 5)
Imperial County Supervisor Wally Leimgruber (District 5)
San Bernadino County Supervisor Brad Mitzelfel (District 1)
Linda Lindholm- Laguna Niguel Councilmember
Mayor Jeff Miller, City of Corona
Mayor Pro Tem Leroy Mills, City of Cypress
Mayor Pro Tem Robert Ming, City of Laguna Niguel
Mayor Randall Norton, Town of Duncan
Mayor Curt Pringle, City of Anaheim
Frank Ury- Mission Viejo Councilmember
Mayor Todd Seymore, City of Cypress
Mike Spence, West Covina Unified School Board Member
Mayor Pro Tem Justin White, City of Chowchilla
Marie Waldron, Escondido Councilmember
Mayor Dennis Yates, City of Chino

Other Public Officials

Ken Campbell, Placer County Republican Chairman
Former Assemblyman Ray Haynes
Former Assemblyman Tim Leslie

[Gemini Cricket]

More Yes Supporters:
Organizations

Active Christian Media
Advocates for Faith and Freedom
Agudath Israel of California
Alliance Defense Fund, serving as Legal Counsel
American Family Association
American Veterans Christian Alliance
Americas Hope
Armineh Chelebian for State Assembly 40th AD
Association of Christian Schools International, Northern and Southern Districts of CA
Bakersfield Republican Assembly
Bethel Baptist Academy
Brethren in Christ Church Pacific Conference
California Catholic Conference of Bishops
California Catholic Women’s Forum
California Family Alliance
California Family Council
Capitol Resource Institute
Catholics at Work
Catholics for Protectmarriage.com
Catholics for the Common Good
Celebration Center, Modesto, CA
Center for Reclaiming America
CFFC-LA
Christians OnDemand
Communities of Western Washington African American Healthy Marriage Initiative
Comunidad Cristiana Internacional Campus Los Angeles
Seasoned Sisters
Bill and Pam Farrel Marriage and Family Communicators
National Organization for Marriage
FHR
Christian Citizenship Council of San Diego
Christian Educators Association International
Christian Examiner Newspaper
Concerned Women for America
Confraternidad Hispaña Bautista de California (Hispanic Southern Baptist Fellowship)
Coral Ridge Ministries
Creation Research of North America
Creation Research of the North Coast
Dobbins/Oregon House Action Committee
Duncan Hunter for 52nd Congressional District
Eagle Forum of California
Eagle Forum of Sacramento
East County Refuge Center
El Camino Christian Fellowship
ElectionForum.org
Evidence for God from Science
Faith2Action
Faith 316
Family Leader Network
Family Research Council
Father Neil W. Seidl Council # 13672
Focus on the Family
Foursquare International
G51 Group
Golden State Association of Christian Schools
Government for the People
Holistic Integrated Services Foundation (HIS), Fullerton
Home Fellowship
Iglesia de la Colina - RCA
Ignite Youth/New Wine Church
Institute for Families and Taxpayers
Jewish New Testament Publications, Inc.
Kerigma Entertainment
Knights of Columbus Council #3052
Knights of Columbus Frances Cabrini Council #8879
Knights of Columbus St. Elizabeth Council #8747, Milpitas
Knights of Columbus St. Michael's of Marin Council #10530, Novato
Knights of Columbus Council #12887, Roseville
Knights of Columbus Council #11724, Sacramento
Knights of Columbus Orange County
Knights of Columbus San Jose
Knights of Columbus St. Raphael Council #1292, San Rafael
Koinonia Sports & Fitness Assoc.
La Familia Hispana
Legacy Law Foundation
Liberty Counsel
Life After Foster Care
Los Angeles Community Builders Inc
Lydia Gutierrez for State Senate
Marriage and Parenting Students of Christ (MAPS)
Meridian Magazine
Network of Politically Active Christians
North Coast Republican Club
One Heart Foundation
Organized Business Council
Orthodox Union
Pacific Justice Institute
Pastors Rapid Response Team (Pastors in Coalition with ProtectMarriage.com)
Preserve Liberty
Proposition 22 Legal Defense and Education Fund
Public Awareness Ministries
Rancho Bernardo Baptist Church
Rancho Del Rey Church
RelayFast08
Republican Party of Riverside County
Revive Indonesia
Sacramento District Church of the Nazarene
SanDiegoAnglicans.com
Sonoma County Republican Party
Southbay Crossing
St. Mary's Charismatic Prayer Group
The Center for Teaching the Constitution
The Holy Name Society
The Knights of Columbus, Council 1346, San Mateo, CA
The River Worship Center
The Rock of Roseville
The Western Center for Law & Policy
Traditional Family Coalition
Traditional Values Coalition
Trinity Life Solutions
NorthBay Neonatology Associates, Inc.
Families First Counseling Services
Ebmeyer Charter & Tour
Superior Organizing Services
Ventura County Christian Leadership Council
Come Let Us Reason
Environmental Geology Services
54th AD Republican Central Committee
United Families California
Values Advocacy Council
VOCAL Californians for the Preservation of Family & Marriage
Wycliffe Bible Translators, Temecula

[BarTopDancer]

4% go baby go!

dammit. up to 6%.

[CoasterMatt]

If you're mad, do something about it.
I've already put a lot of horse porn on the webservers at the local Catholic school.

[keith - SuPeR K!]

So worried about 8.

[Gemini Cricket]

Even More:

Ag West Distributing Co., Inc.
Alpasina Insurance Services
Pastor Marcelo Alvarado, Iglesia Misionnera HispanoAmericana
Patricia Arnold, Calvary Christian Center
Automated Environments
Bambrick & Associates
Be Ready, Inc.
Best Tire and Automotive
Rich Bott-Bott Radio Network
Pastor Kenny Burchard-The Oasis Foursquare Church
Busy Little Bee Daycare
Mary J. Buzzell, M.J.B. Floral Services
Catherine Callen - Lampstand Studios, Divide CO
Richard & Corrine Cardoza, The Lord's Church
Ron Carter- Carter Construction Company
CC Layne & Sons Inc.
Duncan Chamberlin-Duncan's Auto Sales
Richard and Marie Clayton- Maric Services
Community West Mortgage
Cornerstone Custom Construction
Dr. BAM Crawford, Bible Enrichment Fellowship International Center
CRS, Inc.
Culp Diversified Properties
Curry Copy Center of Hemet
Eldon Cyrus- Cyrus Tree Service
Thomas B. Dafoe – Briden Wilson Farm, Arbuckle
John DeCesare, President - inetMatrix
E. Denniston, Contractor: Creative Builders
Bishop Roy Dixon, Pastor
Dr. Johnny Dlakley, God in our Midst
Joyce Edge, Founder/President – Survivors of Assault Recovery
EL VOCERO MAGAZINE
Esthetique Dental Center
Everything4Mom.com
Jason & Andrea Ewell – Jason’s Glass Tint, San Clemente
Fahillion Technology Consultants
Fetal Diagnostic Center
First Experiences Preschool
GFBB Benefits and Insurance
Eric Glover- Wellspring Church
John J. Gobbell, Jr., Real Estate Appraiser
Netz Gomez, Houses of Light
Pastor David Gray, Bible Fellowship Community Church
Guy Strohmeiers Auto Center
Keith Hanks, Azusa City Councilmember
Hartman Construction of Home Services
Pastor Craig Hays, Crenshaw Christian Center
Dr. Jay W. Henderson, President - The Law Offices of Jay W. Henderson, Ltd.
Dan Herron, Zoe Kingdom Seeker
Inspired Stylus Writing and Copyediting
GLen Inverso- MJ Baxter Drilling Company
R. Christian Jesperson- Chiropractic Family Health Center
Justin A. March Associates, Inc.
Richard Kerr- Kerr Real Estate Advisors
George M. Knapp, Investment Advisor: Knapp Financial
James Knox, American Focus
Dr. Rafik George Labib
Land Resource Investments
Lane Associates, Inc.
Dr. James H. Lau
Law Offices of Kimber B. Goddard
Min. Henry Lein, Christian Mission
Leon's Place Independent Living
Tran M. Lewis Jr., Full Gospel COGIC
Lewis Appliance Repair and Installation
Pastor Carleton Lincoln, The Dwelling Place
Lodi Christian Radio KSTG 101.5 LP FM
David W. & Alice G. Magnusson: Haws, Record & Magnusson, Attorneys at Law
Vlade Mamayev, CEO – Buildex Inc.
Nora O. Marin - Little Angel's Daycare, Rancho Cordova
Wayne M. Martin – Wayne Martin Associates, Oxnard
Maximum Marketing Inc.
Joseph McFarland, DDS
MikeMcGill – Former Mayor, City of Cypress
Anchi Miller – ATM International, Kirkland WA
Ridley R. Molders – Molders Logistics, Santa Ana
Todd Mowrey-Fit-To-Be-Tyed
Fabricio Mundo- LinearB Enterprises
Snr. Pastor Dr. Charles Nauden, The Holy Way COGIC COGIC
Don Nordgren, Owner - Pacific Coast Auto Body, Paint & Frame, San Diego
Pastor Jim Ortiz, My Friends House
Dr. Phillip Ortiz, President/Owner - Direct to You Mobile Dentistry, Murrieta
Reverend Dr. Raul Pacheco, FCCI Ministries
Michael A. Padgett – Law Office, Fontana
Pastor Charles/Gwen Patrick, Sunago Christian Fellowship Church-Compton
Bishop Virgil Patterson, Crusaders Ministry
Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, BOND Action
Paul Pothier – The Paleo Conservatist, Yorba Linda
Dr. Frederick K.C. Price, Crenshaw Christian Center
Pastor Fred Price, Jr., Crenshaw Christian Center
Bradley L. Quick - Bradley L. Quick Insurance Agency
Rick J. Radecki – Lion’s Roar Media, Victorville
Min. Leonard Radomskiy, World Outreach House of Prayer
RCS Door Service/ Rodney Press.
Peter M. Reimer - Peter Reimer Farms, Shafter
Reimer's Wholesale Nursery
Brandon Renfro, Lay Pastor – Calvary Baptist Church, Modesto
Resources For Continuing Education, Inc.
RF Sweet & Associates Real Estate
Minister Terrance Richmond, Calvary Christian Center
Gerry Rickert – Cottonwood Quilting, Silverado
George Rickert – Rickert Cabinetry, Silverado
Anthony Rios- First Security Home Loans
Roche Oil, Inc.
Rockingham Asset Management
Denise M. Roland – Reliable Referrals LLC, La Crosse WI
RPM Events, Inc.
Joel Sanders – Sanders Heavy Towing, Williams
Ross L. Sardo – RLS Inspections, Inc. Ventura
Janice Schindler, President - Schindler & Schindler Inc. Fountain Valley
Scott McDonald & Assoc.
Pastor Kenneth Sesley, Kingdom Advancers Family
Sheppard & Associates Insurance Agency
Angela Sisneroz, MEDELEC
Pastor Ed Smith, Zoe Christian Fellowship-Whittier
Patricia Smith – Classic Clean, Inc. Los Gatos
Splash! Designworks
Cynthia L. Stevens - Cynthia’s Cleaning Service
Douglas Stevenson-Quietcool, inc.
Bishop Frank Stewart, Zoe Christian Fellowship-LA
Stubblefield Family Chiropractic
Style Concrete
Scott Suchomel-Sibling Systems
Tai Pan Trading
Teague Construction
Pastor Ray Telles, Hope of Glory Fellowship
The Wellness Advantage
Snr. Pastor, Min. Trena Thompson, The Dwelling Place- Carlton Lincon
President Daniel y Susana Torres, Vision De Futuroag
William U. Valencia, Tax Consultant: Valencia Tax Service
Dr. David M. Walden - Chaplain
Dr. David M. Walden – MOTE Inc., San Diego
Keith Walker, Writer-Publisher: Golden Door Press
Robert R. Weedon LCSW, Coherent Counseling Services
West Coast Commercial Mortgage, Inc.
White Diamond Jewelers
WishIHadThat.com
Pastor Lawrence Witherspoon, Fortress Community Church
Zane Schaeffer Construction
Neftali Zazueta, Grace Harvest Fellowship

[Disneyphile]

Thanks for the lists of companies and organizations to boycott!! :snap:

[Morrigoon]

52-48 with 69% of precincts reporting

[Morrigoon]

Contra Costa only has 44% of precincts reporting so far. They're populous enough to help! Right now 54-46 AGAINST :)

Los Angeles has only 65% of precincts in so far, unfortunately tiped 52-48 FOR - let's hope that WeHo hasn't been counted yet, that could shift things

Monterey reporting 34% of precincts, 52-48 AGAINST :) Not the biggest county, but more votes against will help

San Francisco's almost fully in, so no help there, but they were 77-23 AGAINST in a nice populous area

Santa Clara 55-45 AGAINST, with only 53% reporting, and enough population to have an impact (thought not enough to swing it)

[Betty]

It saddens me that 8 passed. There are employees I work with, people that I like, that voted yes on 8. I'm having a hard time thinking nicely of them at the moment. To think that they would willingly deprive someone of rights makes me think less of them. I don't want to feel that way, but can't help it.

[Stan4dSteph]

The CNN breakdown by age looks promising though. It shows 63% No in voters under 30. There's still hope for the future.

[Kevy Baby]

Also, think of these people (http://www.noonprop8.com/about/who-opposes-prop-8) as allies.One of the things that depresses me is how short this list is.

I am ashamed and embarrassed to be a Californian today.

[Moonliner]

Does the passing of 8 imply that all the recent gay marriages in the state will be annulled?

[Ghoulish Delight]

Does the passing of 8 imply that all the recent gay marriages in the state will be annulled?
That's yet to be determined, some have said yes, some no.

No one has called it yet, but with 95% reporting and a ~400,000 vote lead it looks like it's going to pass.

I went to bed last night with the hopes of waking up to a different story this morning. It's amazing how I can go from feeling so proud of our country watching Barack give his victory speech to so disgusted.

I will wait until the result is official, but I plan on printing a sign for my car:

"Prop 8: Congratulations Bigots"

:mad:

[keith - SuPeR K!]

Does the passing of 8 imply that all the recent gay marriages in the state will be annulled?

I'm curious to see how that will work out as well. I read somewhere that the state will most likely continue giving out marriage licenses to same-sex couples for at least a month- until the paperwork all goes through and the department that controls the licenses tells everyone to stop handing out licenses.

[blueerica]

:(

[Moonliner]

I'm curious to see how that will work out as well. I read somewhere that the state will most likely continue giving out marriage licenses to same-sex couples for at least a month- until the paperwork all goes through and the department that controls the licenses tells everyone to stop handing out licenses.

That's not good. I will create the situation where couples feel like they have to get married now ready or not.

[BarTopDancer]

I will wait until the result is official, but I plan on printing a sign for my car:

"Prop 8: Congratulations Bigots"

:mad:

I was going to print a sign for my car "I voted to NOT take away rights." but I think I may steal your idea.

I am so disgusted by the majority of the population in this state.

[BarTopDancer]

My co-worker said there are 3 million absentee ballots to count still. Can anyone verify?

[Ghoulish Delight]

Hmm, I read that absentee ballots were counted first.

Either way, absentee ballots tend to skew conservative, so I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

ETA: Here's (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/11/05/state/n082023S02.DTL&type=politics) corroboration of the 3 million figure. That would include provisional ballots as well as absentee.

[Kevy Baby]

That's not good. It will create the situation where couples feel like they have to get married now ready or not.So gays get to experience what it is like to get pregnant?

[Gn2Dlnd]

According to the KNX website (http://www.knx1070.com/), the amendment will take effect immediately. The first Lesbian couple to be married in L.A. county is filing a lawsuit claiming the amendment is unconstitutional, as is the San Francisco city attorney.

I have to drive to Redlands today to make a delivery, last time I was there my waitress proudly introduced me to her female fiancee. I hope they were able to get married before this shiat.

I'm disgusted.

[Ghoulish Delight]

A bit of ignorance re: law, but I believe I'm right in thinking that federal constitutional law trumps state, yes? So if "separate but equal" has by precedent been deemed unconstitutional at the federal level, wouldn't that hold at the state level, even ignoring the "can't take away rights with a simple majority" precedent?

[Gemini Cricket]

It was such a buzz kill to read the LA Times newspaper headline this morning.
Big letters proclaiming Obama's win and directly under that in pretty big font "Gay Marriage Opposition Takes Early Lead" or something like that. Ugh.

Some will disagree with me but I knew 8 would pass when I looked at how well-funded Yes was. Way more money than No.

I am glad there are lawsuits being filed against 8 already. A struggle for equal rights is a long process.

I also wonder why the Mormon Church still has their tax-exempt status. Why doesn't something like this affect that status? Just curious.

I am glad Massachusetts still has marriage equality.

[Kevy Baby]

I also wonder why the Mormon Church still has their tax-exempt status. Why doesn't something like this affect that status? Just curious.Why would they lose their tax-exampt status?

[Kevy Baby]

If it passes I'll be at Santa Monica and San Vicente tomorrow, marching towards the Mormon Temple in Westwood.

If I can get a couple thousand friends to join me, that is.

We didn't get arrested during the AB101 marches, I doubt that a peaceful, i.e., no destruction of property, march would get us arrested now.

Nice, easy, beginner protest march, straight down Santa Monica Blvd. and back. I'm thinking 4 or 5 in the evening. Fvcks up traffic all kinds of ways. "You don't like being stuck in traffic? Go home and tell your wife!"Do you know of any marches being planned? I would love to join if I can.

[Kevy Baby]

"Prop 8: Congratulations Bigots"On my drive in this morning, I modified (in my mind) your sign to read:

Proposition 8
The Bigots Win
This Round

[Ghoulish Delight]

Why would they lose their tax-exampt status?
Because tax exempt status for churches has been conditional on the basis that they refrain from political activity.

ETA: Here are the pertinent lines in the IRS code:

no substantial part of [a 501(c)(3) organization's] activities" may consist of "carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation."9 The second restriction mandates that 501(c)(3) organizations may "not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office."

Yeah, I'm going to have to say there's a pretty good case to be made that the Mormon church's substantial contributions violate the "influence legislation" clause in a big way, so don't count on anything happening.

That said, the IRS has never enforced that clause, and the question of that clause's Constitutionality in regards to free speech has never been challenged.

[BarTopDancer]

Do you know of any marches being planned? I would love to join if I can.

Me too.

[BarTopDancer]

Yeah, I'm going to have to say there's a pretty good case to be made that the Mormon church's substantial contributions violate the "influence legislation" clause in a big way.

Let's sue the Mormon church!!!!!!

[JWBear]

According to the CA SOS site... There are 17.3 million registered voters (74.5% of those eligible to vote), but there were only 10.5 million votes cast - 60.7% turnout.

What a differnece that other 7 million could have made. :mad:

[BarTopDancer]

I find it interesting that it's 52 - 48 yes while Prop 4 is 52-48 no.

[Strangler Lewis]

A bit of ignorance re: law, but I believe I'm right in thinking that federal constitutional law trumps state, yes? So if "separate but equal" has by precedent been deemed unconstitutional at the federal level, wouldn't that hold at the state level, even ignoring the "can't take away rights with a simple majority" precedent?

It's been a while, but separate but equal was a racial concept. In equal protection law, you're always going to get your strictest scrutiny when race is at issue. For there to be any equal protection violation, there usually has to be a suspect classification. Gays have not been held to be a suspect class. However, in Lawrence v. Texas, the Supreme Court held that there was no rational basis for criminalizing gay sex, tradition and ancient moral codes notwithstanding. While there is arguably a difference between what is criminalized and what is given civil approval, I think Lawrence is probably the best argument out there.

[Kevy Baby]

Obviously, this is just my uneducated two cents on the subject.ETA: Here are the pertinent lines in the IRS code:

no substantial part of [a 501(c)(3) organization's] activities" may consist of "carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation."The easy out on this clause is that these activities were not a substantial part of the Mormon church's activities. Yes, the donations themselves could be considered substantial, but I can see where this is only a small part of the churches efforts (both financial and time).

The second restriction mandates that 501(c)(3) organizations may "not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office."This clause is not relevant to this case because it refers to a candidate only.

Again, I am not arguing for the LDS church (I am no fan of them), but just giving my $0.02.

[Kevy Baby]

Gays have not been held to be a suspect class.Are you kidding me? Have you met iSm?!? He's as suspect as they get!











(Joking here kids - don't take this post seriously!)

[Gemini Cricket]

Why would they lose their tax-exampt status?

Consequences of Political Campaign Activity

When it participates in political campaign activity, a church or religious organization jeopardizes both its tax-exempt status under IRC section 501(c)(3) and its eligibility to receive tax-deductible contributions. In addition, it may become subject to an excise tax on its political expenditures. This excise tax may be imposed in addition to revocation, or it may be imposed instead of revocation. Also, the church or religious organization should correct the violation.Source (http://projectfairplay.org/content/tax-guide-churches-and-religious-organizations)

(f) Affiliated organizations (1) In general Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (4), if for a taxable year two or more organizations described in section 501(c)(3) are members of an affiliated group of organizations as defined in paragraph (2), and an election under section 501 (h) is effective for at least one such organization for such year, then—
(A) the determination as to whether excess lobbying expenditures have been made and the determination as to whether the expenditure limits of section 501 (h)(1) have been exceeded shall be made as though such affiliated group is one organization,
(B) if such group has excess lobbying expenditures, each such organization as to which an election under section 501 (h) is effective for such year shall be treated as an organization which has excess lobbying expenditures in an amount which equals such organization’s proportionate share of such group’s excess lobbying expenditures,
(C) if the expenditure limits of section 501 (h)(1) are exceeded, each such organization as to which an election under section 501 (h) is effective for such year shall be treated as an organization which is not described in section 501 (c)(3) by reason of the application of 501(h), and
(D) subparagraphs (C) and (D) of subsection (d)(2), paragraph (3) or subsection (d), and clause (i) of subsection (e)(1)(C) shall be applied as if such affiliated group were one organization. Source (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sec_26_00004911----000-.html)

[Gn2Dlnd]

Hey, give the Mormons, in fact, give ALL churches all the free speech they want, but make them pay taxes. I don't see a problem.

[Gemini Cricket]

Hey, give the Mormons, in fact, give ALL churches all the free speech they want, but make them pay taxes. I don't see a problem.
Which brings up a good point. It's not just the Mormons who funded 8. There were other churches involved. Other close-minded, ignorant, pretentiously pious, scruffy-looking Nerf herding churches involved...

[€uroMeinke]

The Good news for 8 was in looking at the exit poll numbers - the No votes in the under 30 age group was overwhellming - but at 20% of the vote the impact was diminished. In time however, that demographic at least indicates to me that it's just a matter of time.

[Betty]

What's nerf-herding?

[JWBear]

I'm pissed at my nephew! He opposed 8, but "never got around to" voting yesterday! :mad:

[Gemini Cricket]

What's nerf-herding?
Click (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs3CvQT63QQ)
0:40

:D

[Gn2Dlnd]

Nobody's answering the phone at LAGLC, If I get through, and can find out where there are protests, I'll post that info here and on twitter.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Really, it's complete Bullsh!t that Obama's against Prop 8. He doesn't support Gay Marriage, i.e., he supports Prop 8. Less talking out of both side of his mouth might make me less disposed to not vote for him Tuesday.


I understand Obama thinks he can't get elected if he supports gay marriage. But coming out against Prop 8 IS supporting existing gay marriage rights. He can't have it both ways ... at least not with me. Ugh, he's not president-elect till tomorrow and already the lies start.Sorry to drag this old line of discussion up, but I came across something yesterday that I think is interesting.

I'm reading Sarah Vowell's Assassination Vacation (http://www.amazon.com/Assassination-Vacation-Sarah-Vowell/dp/0743260031), the first half of which is about the assassination of Lincoln. She discusses the speech that Frederick Douglas gave at the dedication of the Freeman's Memorial in Lincoln Park. Here are some key exerpts:

It must be admitted, truth compels me to admit, even here in the presence of the monument we have erected to his memory, Abraham Lincoln was not, in the fullest sense of the word, either our man or our model. In his interests, in his associations, in his habits of thought, and in his prejudices, he was a white man.

He was preeminently the white man’s President, entirely devoted to the welfare of white men. He was ready and willing at any time during the first years of his administration to deny, postpone, and sacrifice the rights of humanity in the colored people to promote the welfare of the white people of this country.

.......

When, therefore, it shall be asked what we have to do with the memory of Abraham Lincoln, or what Abraham Lincoln had to do with us, the answer is ready, full, and complete. Though he loved Caesar less than Rome, though the Union was more to him than our freedom or our future, under his wise and beneficent rule we saw ourselves gradually lifted from the depths of slavery to the heights of liberty and manhood; under his wise and beneficent rule, and by measures approved and vigorously pressed by him, we saw that the handwriting of ages, in the form of prejudice and proscription, was rapidly fading away from the face of our whole country;



It was as honest a speech as there ever was. Lincoln took a long path to his role as champion of the end of slavery. Much as Obama now stops well short of actually supporting full equal rights for gays, Lincoln stopped well short of supporting freedom for slaves. And his eventual change of heart was more convenience than principle.

But:

Can any colored man, or any white man friendly to the freedom of all men, ever forget the night which followed the first day of January, 1863, when the world was to see if Abraham Lincoln would prove to be as good as his word? I shall never forget that memorable night, when in a distant city I waited and watched at a public meeting, with three thousand others not less anxious than myself, for the word of deliverance which we have heard read today. Nor shall I ever forget the outburst of joy and thanksgiving that rent the air when the lightning brought to us the emancipation proclamation. In that happy hour we forgot all delay, and forgot all tardiness, forgot that the President had bribed the rebels to lay down their arms by a promise to withhold the bolt which would smite the slave-system with destruction; and we were thenceforward willing to allow the President all the latitude of time, phraseology, and every honorable device that statesmanship might require for the achievement of a great and beneficent measure of liberty and progress.

Obama is no Lincoln, and he's surely not achieved, under any guise, the gains for gays that Lincoln achieved for the slaves. But reading this speech, knowing that a great man can truly hold questionable views, play both sides, use those he's purportedly helping merely to serve his own ends, and yet in the end make the right decision, gives me hope that one day, given the opportunity, Obama can do the same.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

We're a quick drive from the Mormon temple. You let us know when we should take our "angry lunch" hour and march with you.

[Gemini Cricket]

Obama mentioned gays in his acceptance speech. That made me extremely happy and proud that I voted for him.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Oh, forgot, here's a link to the full text (http://www.teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?documentprint=39) of Douglas's speech. It's a powerful read.

[Kevy Baby]

Minor detail (and sorry for playing the devil's advocate here). Without looking into the specifics (and relying on my oft faulty memory), I believe that the churches skirted the issue by encouraging their MEMBERS to donate. Again, I am probably wrong somehow, just thinking out loud.

[Gemini Cricket]

I just got an email from Love Honor Cherish. They are conceding the passage of Prop 8.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Yes, most news sites have given it the check mark.

I didn't have time to print my sign up this morning. And I'm not dumb enough to use a company printer for that. It'll have to go up tomorrow.

[innerSpaceman]

The Good news for 8 was in looking at the exit poll numbers - the No votes in the under 30 age group was overwhellming ... that demographic at least indicates to me that it's just a matter of time.

Um, except that the young grow old.


Young people do not automatically retain their optimism, peacefulness, love and good-heartedness. It evaporates in all too many people.


If that weren't the sad truth, the 80's would have been utopia when all the wonderful youth of the 60's grew to be the core of society. It didn't happen that way then, and it won't now.

[Gemini Cricket]

I received an email from my former boss at GLAD (Gay & Lesbian Advocates & Defenders) in Boston. I'd like to share it with everyone because it's hopeful.

Today is an extraordinary day for all Americans.
For LGBT Americans, it's a day when we embrace hope and change - and also re-charge for the work and challenges ahead.
For eight years, we've endured an administration that has been downright hostile to our community. President-elect Obama (http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001Vi9RjSvnRsGEGjlh4QjBYCEIOoFp2qqDHQNZ1M GNEYXE27umTIEiwLIU62h_I95A6l16HbZ8Gsxr48YMUUOmirIc 7Xi4u88TaylBZdwiRJZsiVmrQ72YMO_TMME9bVKF42opQ2kj1M u5DJrU_314RAemDWvsbCOE4FIrOPBi9sr3N56HD5MBiTxkDOp4 qj8_sHKdee7-iKSugHpqNcXVXg==), in contrast has expressed support for many of our issues, and an openness to reconsider his position on others - namely, marriage equality.

Our wish list, of course, is long: there's the prospect of getting rid of discriminatory laws, like Don't Ask Don't Tell, and the so-called "Defense of Marriage Act". There's the prospect of enacting good laws, like an inclusive Employment Non-Discrimination Act, Hate Crimes legislation, the Uniting American Families Act, and domestic partner benefits for federal workers. We expect the appointment of judges and justices who support civil rights and civil liberties as inherent in our constitution, and appointments of fair-minded people at all levels of the federal government.

None of this will happen without our community's unified efforts. While we believe we have a friend in the White House, our community must remain strong, focused, and disciplined in working with the new administration.

More great news came yesterday from Connecticut, where marriage equality is safe! Thanks to a strong and broad coalition working night and day, Connecticut's voters rejected a Constitutional Convention (http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001Vi9RjSvnRsEM3BJmW9mbuqSbM1GKOgk3TDAKCQ ccNQCgvr3HwdlvoQ95Zn1f12hJTMxHvYliHpawU_KuHiHq89p8 KRHxfRUqnFeP6UqlxNHBuDtV0lINSucInWzuVJA1mDYtNVKNih UeyXYIUrZa6K2m3YiUats9h1xy6bIViUJkV98NrkGKSCj41EZ6 Qq6o) by a large margin. Anti-gay forces saw the convention as a way to strip our community of GLAD's historic win in Kerrigan & Mock v. Department of Public Health (http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001Vi9RjSvnRsGHxbq0spsTFyRyqeksINGKKFXtLC BzhYrLVedW6_iLcBx__RJuhBkSTlBlh_Wa7jCimSEXlpZVrO7Y H0kfdFIGGMQJaqgnm8QdoE1pvvQzRTwnALn_yjdEMR0xZARSHM 4LCapV6VZw_IVLvqAYRbeQ55CHv-Fx7p3CyO_Nj8SpV6o1YGgw6AmLRHuGLWjqfLw=).
Now we can look forward to weddings, happiness, and security for the state's same-sex couples and their families, starting Wednesday, November 12 (http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001Vi9RjSvnRsG4eu8PpfvEgRXN7JhrpMszCIJHDd QuOqckvAAbObfzdY2KlILHw4_5ccUz_ycm0GA275ttMUYngwOp C9plsP6eLuKUhEhpUjRe3W3CPVvffF7NsH_M-F11vKiUkCR95saz40VERX3CE_6b4qR_GoKequ2VLttdQEqijaH s__V5gCn6yzcmtD1NzFNiDIGZ-1o=). GLAD will continue our efforts to achieve the goal we have set of marriage equality for every state in New England by 2012 (http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001Vi9RjSvnRsH4k9zSb3omUY1QYhGVs2nK0zkpao qpsTvmPxcpgLj8zbthl3LhUrQxTuLQ18BQ8FqRTqkQaPKDZE5G 9BB8erplm2iK4l9sPT2OptMU3VOSkHZPAtlru-12APWDrIAwvkTncHjSDHI9DQmZQ-Su2wYWK2r5dt-hzCgi35x7gS164w==).

Tempering these sweet victories are losses on initiated measures - in Florida and Arizona amending state constitutions to restrict marriage, in Arkansas to deny adoption rights, and of course California's apparent approval of a constitutional amendment banning marriage equality. There are provisional and absentee ballots still to be counted, but our opponents have maintained a consistent lead.

In California, our opponents relied on a $30 million campaign of deception, scare tactics, and false claims. That's not sour grapes; it was the reality of that hard-fought campaign. We thank Equality for All, the entire No On Prop 8 (http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001Vi9RjSvnRsHNVT2vOoFNIXl5FkG4EBl996KK7n fYxfXFTBzqQ_6tahR-Cx-ah4DkxMpd6JqKHIJouvBD8Vj_jNpSW9kVZcOiqcmePH98JIbS3 9qU21z4_Q==) coalition, and the California families - gay and non-gay - who did so much to tell the truth in that campaign.

This apparent blow to California families and stain of discrimination now embedded in California's constitution shows that those who support equality and inclusion are not yet a majority. Our community gained a level of national unity and organization we've never seen before in this tough battle, but the fight in California and our nation is far from over.

We must keep bright the beacon of equality here in New England - as well as in other states, like New York and New Jersey, where we are closer to winning. The truth will win out. Equality will win out. We must all do the work necessary to make that day come soon.

Please savor these wins and the history of this day -and re-dedicate yourself to working impossibly hard for equality.


Sincerely,
Lee Swislow Executive Director

[Gemini Cricket]

Protest Rally Scheduled for Tonight (http://wehonews.com/z/wehonews/archive/page.php?articleID=2833)
A protest rally has been scheduled for tonight (Wednesday) at 7 pm on San Vicente Blvd between West Hollywood Park and the Pacific Design Center - 647 N. San Vicente Blvd.
San Vicente Blvd, between Santa Monica Blvd and Melrose Avenue will be closed tonight starting at 6 pm. San Vicente south-bound traffic will be directed to make left or right at Santa Monica Blvd.

[Ghoulish Delight]

If you hear of any in OC, let us know.

[Gemini Cricket]

I wrote this last night and posted it to No on 8's Facebook page this morning.
It's a call to action. It's something not everyone will agree with me on, but I put it out there for people to see.
I think there is a lot of anger out there and I'd like to see that anger channeled into something productive and not destructive.
The news about Proposition 8 is not good.

A group of well-funded, small-minded people got together and wrote discrimination into California's Constitution. It is now in writing that your relationship and the commitment made by two loving people is not as important as others. It's law.

But my question to all those who supported the No on 8 Campaign is this: What are you going to do about that?

As a gay man who supports marriage equality, this is the third time I have lived through a lively discussion about same-sex marriage, once in Hawai'i in 1998, again in Boston when gay marriage was legalized and now in California where Prop 8 was passed by a slim majority. The faces were different but the hate was the same. There were people out there who believed that they owned the truth and wanted to define it for all of us. The reality is that despite the hate and lies that was spewed, they haven't taken away something important. They haven't taken away your self-pride and the love you feel for your husband, wife, or partner. That they can never take away.

But I ask again: What are you going to do about this display of hate directed at you and your family?

The answer is simple. There needs to be a call to action. We need to fight back. Take note of all of those organizations and business leaders who funded taking away your rights. You need to think twice before ever, ever giving your hard earned money or support to them.

If there is a "charitable" organization out there who funded Prop 8, do not donate to their cause. Find a like minded cause that also acknowledges and accepts you and fund them instead. For example: find out which hotel owner gave a lot of money to the Yes group and book another hotel instead on that vacation you're taking. Think to yourself, 'Hmm, do I really need to sign up for membership on the Mormon run site Ancestry.com?' The answer is no.

Channel the anger you're feeling today into action. Let your voice be heard in a peaceful manner. If these bigots won't listen to reason, then maybe they will listen to their falling profits when there's no money from the GLBT community and the GLBT-friendly community to support them.

Never help fund anyone who avidly fights to make you a second class citizen. Spend wisely, do your research.

Don't give up. This fight may be over but the battle has just begun and will end when all Americans are all equal under the law.

Brad

[Chernabog]

PROTEST DEMONSTRATION AGAINST PROP 8 TONIGHT AT 7PM AT SAN VICENTE AND MELROSE



SPREAD THE WORD WIDELY



OUR FIGHT FOR OUR EQUALITY, DIGNITY AND FULL CITIZENSHIP IS FAR FROM OVER



LET THIS DEFEAT ENERGIZE US TO TAKE ACTION - REACH OUT - BUILD STRENGTH ACROSS COMMUNITIES



WE CANNOT LAY DOWN IN DEFEAT - WE MUST STAND UP AND FIGHT


San Vicente Blvd, between Santa Monica Blvd and Melrose Avenue will be closed tonight starting at 6 pm. San Vicente south-bound traffic will be directed to make left or right at Santa Monica Blvd. Signs have already been posted to help divert traffic.

For more information about tonight's rally, please contact (323) 848-6460.

[innerSpaceman]

Protest Rally Scheduled for Tonight (http://wehonews.com/z/wehonews/archive/page.php?articleID=2833)

PROTEST DEMONSTRATION AGAINST PROP 8 TONIGHT AT 7PM AT SAN VICENTE AND MELROSE

Either of you planning on going? We could meet up. :) ... oh, :(

[Chernabog]

Either of you planning on going? We could meet up. :) ... oh, :(

Whats the oh :( for? BJ has to work, but I might go.

[Stan4dSteph]

The CNN breakdown by age looks promising though. It shows 63% No in voters under 30. There's still hope for the future.

The Good news for 8 was in looking at the exit poll numbers - the No votes in the under 30 age group was overwhellming - but at 20% of the vote the impact was diminished. In time however, that demographic at least indicates to me that it's just a matter of time.Great minds think alike.

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Have fun at your rally. If you get some sort of venting enjoyment out of it, that's fine. I will not be attending the futility.

Ya see, when somebody's imaginary friend tells them that fâggots aren't worth shït, there's really nothing intelligent, open-minded people can do (including protesting) to sway them. The only thing we can hope for is that these fücktards will eventually die off and people who can actually think will prevail.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Indeed we can't necessarily change the minds of the bigoted. But we have to stay in action to remind the intelligent, open-minded people (and particularly the young ones who are coming into their own - I came from a homophobic family, myself, once upon a time) how important this issue is.

[Isaac]

I think I'll attend this one.

[innerSpaceman]

Whats the oh :( for? BJ has to work, but I might go.

Oh, I was just like :) Yay, let's meet up and have fun at the Protest because, oh :( California is full of suckwads who think fags are less worthy of respect than the chickens they eat.

[Gemini Cricket]

I think I will be there. But where the heck do you park?

[Chernabog]

Ya see, when somebody's imaginary friend tells them that fâggots aren't worth shït, there's really nothing intelligent, open-minded people can do (including protesting) to sway them. The only thing we can hope for is that these fücktards will eventually die off and people who can actually think will prevail.

I think it's more of a way to a) vent and b) try and get it out of your system to mentally move on and regroup for the next marriage battle (and there will be many many more, as long as people continue to believe that their magical sky fairy should control other people's lives, we need to be there to meet that battle).

It is not to change anyone's minds, but a way to process the crushing blow we have been dealt. I am having a very difficult time today comprehending how to deal with people, particularly Mormons and Christians. They are misguided bigots who are either too stupid to think for themselves or too chickensh!t to stand up to a church that they know is hurting people.

I do know that any respect that I had for them -- they can find their own path to God as long as it doesn't hurt me -- is obviously over. I just can't tell who the good people are and the bad people are just from walking down the street, y'know?

[innerSpaceman]

I think I will be there. But where the heck do you park?
I'm gonna park at in front of my friend's Apartment just south of Melrose, just east of LaCienega ... only because I know how to get there and it was easy to find parking even for the WeHo Halloween Carnaval.

Want directions?

[Gemini Cricket]

Want directions?
Yes.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Not all Christians. Certainly, many. But not all. Look at the faith-based groups on this huge list (http://www.noonprop8.com/about/who-opposes-prop-8); even the Catholic Democrats of California are on our side.

[innerSpaceman]

I am having a very difficult time today comprehending how to deal with people, particularly Mormons and Christians. They are misguided bigots who are either too stupid to think for themselves or too chickensh!t to stand up to a church that they know is hurting people.

I do know that any respect that I had for them -- they can find their own path to God as long as it doesn't hurt me -- is obviously over. I just can't tell who the good people are and the bad people are just from walking down the street, y'know?

Worse than that, for me (as I alluded to last night), I have some good friends who are good people AND Mormons ... and I'm gonna have a hard time telling their obviously good side from their obviously bad side during the future times of our relationships.

In any case, if I can get out of my previous obligation for this evening, I'd like to attend the rally to, yes, process some of my distressing feelings today. I'd certainly like to process them in a more healthy and releasing way than I have so far (which this morning involved a scalding hot shower of water and tears, and a razor blade when the soap was not enough to wash away the disgusting filth I felt.)


Hmmm, maybe I need psychotherapy instead. :mad:


And of course, I'm mindful of LPSE and Tom's story last night of meeting the day after their 2004 crushing election defeat and falling in love.


Yes, hmmm, rally in WeHo. :D

[LSPoorEeyorick]

We will be at the rally tonight. Our marriage isn't truly valid until yours are.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Have fun at your rally. If you get some sort of venting enjoyment out of it, that's fine. I will not be attending the futility.

Ya see, when somebody's imaginary friend tells them that fâggots aren't worth shït, there's really nothing intelligent, open-minded people can do (including protesting) to sway them. The only thing we can hope for is that these fücktards will eventually die off and people who can actually think will prevail.The only way things change is if people stand up and are counted.

Every person attending the rally means one more number to add to the headline the next day. Every sign placed means that more people are forced to consider their positions again. Sitting back and accepting a fate of inequality will only result in more inequality.

Fight, fight, fight, otherwise nothing ever changes.

[madmonkeygirl]

It disgusts me that people are that way and i am very saddened that people think that they can take away people's constiutional rights to marry who they want to. It's like to me what if someone's kid comes to them saying they are gay? then what? Or is that kid gonna be so homophobic that they stay in the closet affecting their health etc. Sad sad world that we live in. I just can't imagine taking away someone's right. It's discrimination of sorts in a way. Ok i could go on and on but i won't.

[BarTopDancer]

Andrew sent me this a bit earlier. It may have come before LHC conceeded

Nov 05, 2008 Statement by No on Prop 8 Campaign on Election Status [http://www.noonprop8.com/headlines/statement-by-no-on-prop-8-campaign-on-election-status/%5d Roughly 400,000 votes separate yes from no on Prop 8 – out of 10 million votes tallied. Based on turnout estimates reported yesterday, we expect that there are more than 3 million and possibly as many as 4 million absentee and provisional ballots yet to be counted. Given that fundamental rights are at stake, we must wait to hear from the Secretary of State tomorrow how many votes are yet to be counted as well as where they are from. It is clearly a very close election and we monitored the results all evening and this morning. As of this point, the election is too close to call. Because Prop 8 involves the sensitive matter of individual rights, we believe it is important to wait until we receive further information about the outcome. Geoff Kors Executive Committee NO on Prop 8 K

[innerSpaceman]

GC, check your PMs.


All others who are going, shall we have a meet plan or just rely on cell phones?

[Andrew]

As the vote counting continued this morning, opponents of Prop. 8 filed a lawsuit directly with the state Supreme Court - whose May 15 ruling legalized same-sex marriage - asking the justices to overturn the measure.

The suit argued that Prop. 8 would change the California Constitution in such fundamental ways - taking important rights away from a minority group - that it amounted to a constitutional revision, which requires approval by the Legislature before being submitted to the voters.
Source (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/05/BA3B13UM63.DTL&feed=rss.bayarea)

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Our marriage isn't truly valid until yours are.Thank you for that ray of light on this very, very dark day.

Every person attending the rally means one more number to add to the headline the next day. Every sign placed means that more people are forced to consider their positions again.It doesn't matter if there are 5 or five million at the rally. It doesn't matter how many No on H8 signs they read on their way home form work. Nothing, absolutely nothing is going to change the mind of a "person" who thinks homosexuals are not full human beings.

You cannot reason a person out of a position they weren't reasoned into in the first place.

Sitting back and accepting a fate of inequality will only result in more inequality.I don't disagree with you on that point. I just think that a rally will not change any enemy minds.

what if someone's kid comes to them saying they are gay? then what? Or is that kid gonna be so homophobic that they stay in the closet affecting their health etc.The most likely scenarios are: The kid stays in the closet and becomes sick and/or commits suicide.
The kid grows up and becomes a gay basher. He who screams "fag" loudest invariably is one.

[Ghoulish Delight]

It doesn't matter if there are 5 or five million at the rally. It doesn't matter how many No on H8 signs they read on their way home form work. Nothing, absolutely nothing is going to change the mind of a "person" who thinks homosexuals are not full human beings.

You cannot reason a person out of a position they weren't reasoned into in the first place.
Just as nothing could have changed the minds of people who didn't think blacks were human.

The good news is, you don't have to change the minds of those too entrenched to change. You need to change the minds of the small few who are simply misinformed, and the ones who just didn't understand the importance and didn't vote.

Prop 8 did not win in a landslide. It barely snuck by. The louder those of us who know better are now, the more likely things will tilt the other way next time.

[Stan4dSteph]

It is not to change anyone's minds, but a way to process the crushing blow we have been dealt. I am having a very difficult time today comprehending how to deal with people, particularly Mormons and Christians. They are misguided bigots who are either too stupid to think for themselves or too chickensh!t to stand up to a church that they know is hurting people.

I do know that any respect that I had for them -- they can find their own path to God as long as it doesn't hurt me -- is obviously over. I just can't tell who the good people are and the bad people are just from walking down the street, y'know?That's a hurtful generalization. I don't live in CA, so I couldn't vote on Prop 8, but I would have voted no. I am also a Christian.

[Gn2Dlnd]

Protest Rally Scheduled for Tonight (http://wehonews.com/z/wehonews/archive/page.php?articleID=2833)

Thanks for the info, I'll be back from Redlands in plenty of time to attend.

[SzczerbiakManiac]

nothing could have changed the minds of people who didn't think blacks were human.I agree with you. The only way this situation will change is when the courts force the ignorant to play nice. But judges don't make decisions based on how many people attended a post-election rally. The good judges (ones not unduly influenced by imaginary friends) make decisions based on what is fair and just.

[BarTopDancer]

Mormon leaders urge respect for foes in gay-marriage debate.

Link (http://www.sltrib.com/faith/ci_10907306)

Now that California voters have outlawed same-sex marriage, an LDS Church leader called Wednesday for members to heal any rifts caused by the emotional campaign by treating each other with "civility, with respect and with love."

So now that they got what they wanted they should love thy neighbor?

I feel like I've just been slapped in the face.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I agree with you. The only way this situation will change is when the courts force the ignorant to play nice. But judges don't make decisions based on how many people attended a post-election rally. The good judges (ones not unduly influenced by imaginary friends) make decisions based on what is fair and just.The Civil Rights act in 1964 was passed by Congress and signed into law by the President. Elected officials acting because they could not ignore a motivated citizenship that was not standing by quietly waiting for judges to fix things.

Obama got flack for this old quote, but it's a good message:

"And I think one of the tragedies of the civil rights movement was that the civil rights movement became so court-focused, I think there was a tendency to lose track of the political and organizing activities on the ground that are able to bring about the coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributive change, and in some ways we still suffer from that."

And beyond all that, think back to being taught about the civil rights movement during your own formative years. What do you remember as having the biggest impression on you? The kind of impression that ensured that your generation was instilled with a sense of tolerance and equality for people no like yourself. Was it details of court rulings? Or was it images like these:

http://z.about.com/d/civilliberty/1/0/n/1/-/-/march_500x499.jpg

http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/46/7546-004-7F54297C.jpg


This isn't about this election. It isn't about the next election. It's not about 3 lawsuits, a pending court battle, or even a possible federal Supreme Court ruling. It's about letting everyone know that human beings deserve rights and being sure no one forgets it. It's about making sure future generations know that people are willing to fight for their right.

I understand being too angry to want to face the insurmountable force of ignorance yourself. But there are people who are planning to stand in the streets and proclaim their support for you as a human being. I cheer them on, and wish I could be there myself. I hope you feel the same.

[Morrigoon]

Amendments cannot be struck from the Constitution, they must be repealed by a subsequent amendment. So I sincerely hope someone is starting the signature-gathering effort RIGHT NOW for that amendment.

[BarTopDancer]

Amendments cannot be struck from the Constitution, they must be repealed by a subsequent amendment. So I sincerely hope someone is starting the signature-gathering effort RIGHT NOW for that amendment.

Source (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/05/BA3B13UM63.DTL&feed=rss.bayarea)

As the vote counting continued this morning, opponents of Prop. 8 filed a lawsuit directly with the state Supreme Court - whose May 15 ruling legalized same-sex marriage - asking the justices to overturn the measure.

The suit argued that Prop. 8 would change the California Constitution in such fundamental ways - taking important rights away from a minority group - that it amounted to a constitutional revision, which requires approval by the Legislature before being submitted to the voters.

.

[innerSpaceman]

What do you remember as having the biggest impression on you? The kind of impression that ensured that your generation was instilled with a sense of tolerance and equality for people no like yourself. Was it details of court rulings? Or was it images like these:

http://z.about.com/d/civilliberty/1/0/n/1/-/-/march_500x499.jpg


^ awesome point.

Pictures speak a thousand words, don't they?


I was alive then. I remember it well, and all the Vietnam protests, too.


I don't remember any of the court rulings. Yawn.



That said, I'm confident this will be won in the Courts. And that's fine for California ... but does not help the rest of America in the way a voter affirmation of gay rights here would have.

Bah.

Sad cheese. :(

[Andrew]

Amendments cannot be struck from the Constitution, they must be repealed by a subsequent amendment. So I sincerely hope someone is starting the signature-gathering effort RIGHT NOW for that amendment.
The matter under question is whether 8 is in fact a valid, legitimate amendment. The No-8 people say it isn't, because the kind of change implied by 8 has to be enacted by the Legislature and can't be done by Initiative.

[Morrigoon]

I'm not ignoring that, BTD, one can hope that it is prevented from being added to the Constitution at all.

But just as they did not wait for gay marriage to be legalized before starting their amendment activities, let's not wait for their amendment to be legitimized before starting our own efforts to repeal it. IF 8 stays, why waste even a moment that could be spent working to repeal it?

[Chernabog]

That's a hurtful generalization. I don't live in CA, so I couldn't vote on Prop 8, but I would have voted no. I am also a Christian.

I re-read what I wrote and I wasn't clear. By "they" I didn't mean all Christians and Mormons. By "they" I meant the Christians and Mormons who voted yes on 8.

[BarTopDancer]

I was talking to my co-worker who voted yes, and I started crying and he felt properly bad for participating in this and encouraging his children to take part and he realized he is not promoting tolerance, but intolerance.

It took putting a face to the pain, to who was hurt by this (hurting because your friends were just denied something by the majority of the state) for him to realize he messed up. I hope others come around - not in the backhanded way from the article above, but really come around.

[Chernabog]

Now that California voters have outlawed same-sex marriage, an LDS Church leader called Wednesday for members to heal any rifts caused by the emotional campaign by treating each other with "civility, with respect and with love."

What utter horsesh!t. I'd like to heal their rift with my fist, frankly.

I'm now of the opinion that the LDS Church is a horrible institution, not from some kind of misguided anti-religious irrational hysteria, but by its actions in the past few weeks. They have gone far beyond redemption.

[innerSpaceman]

TeeHee, just heard a cool story from a friend of mine. Her 17-year-old straight boy son was driving along, came upon a bunch of YesHead protesters and shouted out to them, "I Love Sucking Dick!!"

Hahahahahahah! :D

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Are we carrying signs tonight?

[innerSpaceman]

I want to. But ... I don't know anyplace to stop and get posterboard between here and WeHo (though if I go straight from work - - no pun intended -- I'll get there too early).

[Chernabog]

Are we carrying signs tonight?

Isn't there a place right around our work? Like an Aaron Bros or something? I haven't taken a lunch yet, should I meet you there? :D

[Isaac]

GC, check your PMs.


All others who are going, shall we have a meet plan or just rely on cell phones?
Need directions too, please :)

[Stan4dSteph]

I re-read what I wrote and I wasn't clear. By "they" I didn't mean all Christians and Mormons. By "they" I meant the Christians and Mormons who voted yes on 8.Thanks for the clarification.

I wish I could be there to lend a hand with the protest.

[JWBear]

I will be there with you in spirit, my bretheren.

[SzczerbiakManiac]

To all my straight friends who voted no on H8:
Let me be absolutely clear, since this may have only been hinted at in my previous rants. I unequivocally love and thank you for supporting us same-sex-loving folks. You did not have to take a stand on this issue but you did. I know I speak for my G&L brothers & sisters when I tell you our appreciation knows no bounds.

To all those who will be attending the anti-H8 rally this evening:
More power to you! I'm glad you feel energized to get out and protest the passing of this ridiculous proposition. If you wish to march, yell, honk your horn, or any other non-violent form of protesting, you have my blessing. I have my own reasons for not attending, but you should absolutely do what you feel you need to do.

[Chernabog]

There's a Kinkos by me. I'm sure they have posterboard for signs and poster rolls for "sticks". I'm trying to think what to say on it. Perhaps "I am not a second-class citizen" or "Shame on the Mormon Church" or "Jesus says MIND YOUR OWN FVCKING BUSINESS" or "We will overcome your hate" or...

[innerSpaceman]

Isaac, I forwarded you the PM I sent to Gemini Cricket.



I have no idea what to put on a sign that would not be unduly offensive.

I want some positive slogan, but I'm not coming up with anything so far ... so if there are any suggestions, they are welcome (notwithstanding those suggested by Chernabog above) ;)

[BarTopDancer]

How about "I didn't realize that Jesus was down with discrimination"

Or

"I thought Jesus said don't judge?"

[Ghoulish Delight]

"What does my marriage have to do with yours?"

"Stop 8igotry"

"Equality is for Everyone, Whether you Like it or Not"

[Alex]

If anybody knows of any protests/rallies up here in the Bay Area, could you point them out. I'm not sure where exactly to look for them.

Going into the city on a weeknight isn't the easiest thing, but if I can I will.

[Promo-Man]

Prop 8 = Fear
Fear = Hate

[BarTopDancer]

Facebook has a 1,000,000 strong to challenge Prop 8 group. I can't join from my phone, but if someone can I think they are talking about rallies in OC. If someone could check that'd be awesome.

[BarTopDancer]

If anybody knows of any protests/rallies up here in the Bay Area, could you point them out. I'm not sure where exactly to look for them.

Going into the city on a weeknight isn't the easiest thing, but if I can I will.

Alex,

On that Facebook group I just mentioned there is a wall post that says

"San Francisco Rally 6:30PM City Hall 1 Dr. Carlton B. Goodlett Place."

I hope that makes sense to you.

[Gemini Cricket]

Nov 05, 2008
Community Gatherings (http://www.noonprop8.com/events/community-gatherings/)

Across the state this evening, people who support equality for all and oppose Prop 8 gather together. With an estimated 3 to 4 million votes remaining to be counted, the race is still too close to call.
Event listing updated regularly

Los Angeles
7:00 p.m. | West Hollywood
Corner of Santa Monica Blvd and San Vicente Blvd


Modesto
7:00 p.m.| Stanislaus Pride Center
Silent walk to Graceada Park


Oceanside
5:30 p.m. | Civic Center Library Community Rooms
330 N. Coast Highway

Food will be served, but feel free to bring something to share.


Sacramento
5 p.m. | Capitol Steps


San Diego
6:30 | The Center
3909 Centre Street
Co-sponsored by the Center, EQCA and HRC



San Luis Obispo
5:30 p.m. | Mission Plaza Amphitheater


San Francisco
6:30 | City Hall
1 Dr. Carlton B. Goodlett Place

[Kevy Baby]

Shocking: nothing in Orange County :rolleyes: