Ta Ta Jesse Helms

[Snowflake]

Originally Posted by lashbear

...and Jesus said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
..and a stone came flying over the heads of the crowd and struck hard and true.
...Jesus turned and said "Mum, you can be so annoying at times."

visible LB mojo, I'm LMAO!

[LSPoorEeyorick]

I want to preface my reply: Helms was despicable, and I don't really have a problem with people who are grave-dancing.

But, in a devil's-advocate kind of way, some of you bristled at the parallel between Helms' positions and yours. "He was evil - it's OK to grave-dance if the deceased was evil." Well, Helms thought homosexuals were evil; was it OK if he badmouthed them? In his (obviously poisonous and addled) mind, what he was saying was probably OK.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

I want to preface my reply: Helms was despicable, and I don't really have a problem with people who are grave-dancing.

But, in a devil's-advocate kind of way, some of you bristled at the parallel between Helms' positions and yours. "He was evil - it's OK to grave-dance if the deceased was evil." Well, Helms thought homosexuals were evil; was it OK if he badmouthed them? In his (obviously poisonous and addled) mind, what he was saying was probably OK.

Not all homosexuals are evil. He hated all gay people. That's the distinction. He caused harm to the gay community through his hate speech and blocking AIDS related bills. Besides cover his house with a giant condom, the gay community has not caused any harm to him or his family for him to come to his conclusion. He didn't need any proof to come to his conclusion. Helms, in turn, has left a trail of hate behind him.
I'm all for seeing things through his eyes, but I can't find any rationale in hating an entire group of people.

ETA: I found some footage of Act Up putting the condom over his house. Click here.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

Well, Helms thought homosexuals were evil; was it OK if he badmouthed them?

Apparently it was OK. I mean, how long was he in the Senate? 30 f*cking years!

[Chernabog]

OMG that condom footage is GREAT!!!

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

Not all homosexuals are evil.

Well, yes, and I quite agree. But my point is: he didn't. He thought that just by being engaging in homosexual activity, they were doing evil. I'm certainly not defending his point of view - just pointing out that not much can be gained by the "OK to talk **** about the evil" argument. Evil is in the eye of the beholder, and he believed his POV just as strongly as you believe yours.

So I'm not going to go by the "OK to talk **** about the evil" rule - I'm going to go by my person rule: be respectful but honest. So: honestly and respectfully, Mr. Helms, we always disagreed and the things you said made me angry. I'm not mourning your death but I'm not celebrating it either.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Chernabog

And yes, if you get that reference, you may be a closet queen.

Just Queen, honey... Closets ain't got nothing to do with it!

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Oh, the women who love musicals aren't necessarily gay. (But we're not necessarily a 0 on the Kinsey.)

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

Well, yes, and I quite agree. But my point is: he didn't. He thought that just by being engaging in homosexual activity, they were doing evil. I'm certainly not defending his point of view - just pointing out that not much can be gained by the "OK to talk **** about the evil" argument. Evil is in the eye of the beholder, and he believed his POV just as strongly as you believe yours.

So I'm not going to go by the "OK to talk **** about the evil" rule - I'm going to go by my person rule: be respectful but honest. So: honestly and respectfully, Mr. Helms, we always disagreed and the things you said made me angry. I'm not mourning your death but I'm not celebrating it either.

Nothing can be gained? The one thing that can be gained is the reminding people (be it four days later or four years later) of what a scumbag this guy was. There's no way I would want history to remember him as some sort of hero. The country can move forward when we identify where we went wrong in the past and not make the same mistakes again. If Helms is that identifier, then so be it.

What exactly has Helms done to earn your respect? Or is it the thinking that one should be respectful of the dead? (BTW, I'm not mad at LSPE, I am challenging her stance.) He hasn't earned my respect.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by JWBear

Just Queen, honey... Closets ain't got nothing to do with it!

You said "honey".


Mr. Upson: Hooonnneeeeeeyyy...