WTF Stories of the Week

[Strangler Lewis]

I don't know what X-Box live is, but I get the sense that all the gays should be kicked off.

Then, when all the straights are kicked off, the world will be a better place.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Geez. First off, she apologized and conceded your point, not sure why you're piling on.

Secondly, it's not "semantic pedantry." There is a big difference between, "I went to dinner with my wife last night," and, "Hey everyone, I prefer f*cking pussy to sucking dick!"

The question is, where on that spectrum does "Hey, I'm a lesbian" fall? I don't think it's particularly strong of a declaration. I wouldn't expect "I'm straight" to raise anyone's eyebrows, so I do consider XBox's actions out of line.

My second post was in response to Moonliner, not Betty.

And while she did apologize, I think she (and others) missed the point. "Proclaiming", "flaunting", "mentioning", (whatever) your sexual orientation is not something only gays and lesbians do. Straights do it also. Just because heterosexuality is considered "normal" by society does not mean that straights do not constantly, and in thousands of little ways, display it. I get tired of the double standard that a straight person can bring up their sexuality any time they want, and no one bats an eye; but if I or my fellow homosexuals do, we are told it's "inappropriate" or that we are "flaunting" it, or "shoving it down normal peoples throats".

[Ghoulish Delight]

I don't disagree with your view.

But to play a bit of devils advocate for a moment, because heterosexuality is the overwhelming majority, gays do end up having to be more overt about their "declarations" of their sexuality. If a straight man is hanging out in a typical bar, hoping to perhaps meet a prospective dating partner, they don't need to do anything in particular to attract the attention of said prospective partners. Whereas a homosexual man is likely to do something "out of the ordinary" to actively identify themselves as homosexual to be noticeable to their set of prospective targets.

People are assumed hetero by default, if someone wants to be quickly recognized as homosexual, it's going to take some sort of overt display.

This is just the reality of the fact that you're only about 10% of the population. It's a necessity of the circumstances.

The divergence comes with those that decide that ANY such display is de facto "wrong" and "inappropriate". I disagree with that assessment, obviously. But knowing human behavior, and the fact that we are generally hardwired to distrust things that are out of the ordinary, it's not a particularly surprising result that a large number of people have a negative reaction. The hope would be that bringing continued attention to the inequity will eventually raise the public conscience to the fact that it's not "inappropriate", even if it is conspicuous. But I do understand, when heterosexuality is the default, and part of the background noise, people have difficulty recognizing that overt "declarations" of homosexuality aren't done out of a desire to be inappropriate.

Afterall, wouldn't people look at someone who walks around saying, "Hi, I'm straight" pretty funny?

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

But to play a bit of devils advocate for a moment, because heterosexuality is the overwhelming majority, gays do end up having to be more overt about their "declarations" of their sexuality. If a straight man is hanging out in a typical bar, hoping to perhaps meet a prospective dating partner, they don't need to do anything in particular to attract the attention of said prospective partners. Whereas a homosexual man is likely to do something "out of the ordinary" to actively identify themselves as homosexual to be noticeable to their set of prospective targets.

People are assumed hetero by default, if someone wants to be quickly recognized as homosexual, it's going to take some sort of overt display.

This is just the reality of the fact that you're only about 10% of the population. It's a necessity of the circumstances.

That may be true, but I wasn’t talking about that kind of a situation. I was referring to everyday life. And implicit in your scenario is the same assumption that the only reason anyone would want to be open about being gay is for the purpose of eliciting sex.

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Afterall, wouldn't people look at someone who walks around saying, "Hi, I'm straight" pretty funny?

Do you really think that is the only way in which you call attention to your sexuality? I don’t walk around saying, "Hi, I'm gay", but I have held Bill’s hand in public; and gotten angry and disgusted looks for it. How about you and CP? Not so much, I expect.

[Betty]

JWBear - what do you want me to say?

It's not my fault I can talk about my spouse. I agreed with you that you should be able to. I voted no on 8. I got into arguments... er discussions at work over the subject with coworkers. I had heart to heart talks with my kids because her friends were saying Yes on 8 and I wanted her to understand what that really meant - and in the end - she actually agreed with me. (and for my 14 year old to agree with me on something - well - it feels like an accomplishment sometimes.)

Would you prefer I not discuss my spouse? I have never expressed that you shouldn't do the same. I think you should! And I'm sorry that people have made you feel badly about doing so.

I am not society as a whole but it sure feels like you're making this double standard all my fault.

[Strangler Lewis]

I still think the larger point is being missed: that all online gaming is, sub silentio, gay. Or, perhaps more aptly, like many internet interactions, it is about anonymous intimacy. I suspect many of the gamers would be upset to learn that the person who blew them through the glory hole was a man, and they wouldn't want a gay guy in their wrestling club. No different here.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by Moonliner

Define: Mentioned
A speaking or notice of anything, usually in a brief or cursory manner. Used especially in the phrase to make mention of.

Define: Proclaimed
To excitedly, verbosely and candidly describe

I don't think Betty proclaims her sexuality on a regular basis. Nor do I think the X-Box gal proclaimed hers.

Originally Posted by JWBear

Semantic pedantry is what one falls back on when one has no valid argument.

Originally Posted by Moonliner

Or abuses when trying to make a point irregardless of the facts.

Okay, I almost didn't post this because it such a "me too" post, but I gotta chime in that I am with Moonie on this one.

And GD's follow-up as well.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Betty

JWBear - what do you want me to say?

It's not my fault I can talk about my spouse. I agreed with you that you should be able to. I voted no on 8. I got into arguments... er discussions at work over the subject with coworkers. I had heart to heart talks with my kids because her friends were saying Yes on 8 and I wanted her to understand what that really meant - and in the end - she actually agreed with me. (and for my 14 year old to agree with me on something - well - it feels like an accomplishment sometimes.)

Would you prefer I not discuss my spouse? I have never expressed that you shouldn't do the same. I think you should! And I'm sorry that people have made you feel badly about doing so.

I am not society as a whole but it sure feels like you're making this double standard all my fault.

You’re post pushed one of my buttons, and I apologize.

I would never expect to not talk about your husband. But please keep in mind that, when you do, you are bringing up your sexuality. It’s a good thing, and more power to you.

You, personally, are not to blame for the double standard. I never said that. All I ask of anyone is to keep in mind that it exists, and to not feed into it.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

Okay, I almost didn't post this because it such a "me too" post, but I gotta chime in that I am with Moonie on this one.

And GD's follow-up as well.

Then you too are missing the point.

[Not Afraid]

There is a double standard and there probably always will be. People bring their own values and "morals" along with them and make judgements accordingly. When Chris and I were living together before we were married, we had lots of people "disapprove" of us. I decided that was their problem and really had no effect on my life, so fu<k 'em. I, personally, will never understand why gay couples don't hold hands in public, kiss in public, do any of the things that straight couples do in public. Yes, some people won't approve, but so what? Fu<k 'em.

As for someone being ousted from a gaming site because they stated who they are, that's wrong. Who cares if someone playing an on-line game is a lesbian? Where is the list of what is appropriate and what is not? Maybe they should make a check list of items and then approve you based on your answers. ie:

Lesbian
Gay
Homophobe
Christian
Nudist
Athiest
Hedonist
Swinger
Wife Beater
Pederast
Copraphiliac
Flirt
Polygamist
Asexual
Virgin
etc. etc. etc.

Would ANY of those things REALLY matter in an on-line gaming community?