Past Life Regression

Alex · 02-04-2007, 02:23 PM

Well, that is what I'd like thecorndogwalker to address. In my reading on the subject I don't come across many reports of people reporting that they were once a groundhog or generic alien entity. But if they were that too would be interesting and then statistically the odds of having twice been a human in the last few centuries are pretty slim.

innerSpaceman, I don't intend to limit it to the place and timeflow of earth, those are just the vast majority of claims I've seen for recovered past lives. I do not intend to impose rules on reincarnation, but intend to respond to the fact that overwhelmingly the reported knowledge of past lives are from one human life to another human life (and generally within the same race). If there are extensive reports of people finding they were aliens in another universe I'd like to be aware of them (and again, if that is the case then statistically being a human twice would be pretty unlikely).

If it is simply immune to any rational consideration, I'd be interested in that claim as well (since PLR is generally presented in at least a pseudo-rational context).

That is why I am taking the opportunity offered by thecorndogwalker to ask him questions about PLR. I can certainly create contextual structures that deal with my questions (particularly if I am willing to put it outside the realm of rational evidence) but I'd just be making **** up. I don't think my questions are unreasonable and presumably the proponents of PLR have spent time thinking about them so I'm curious what their conclusions are.

To rephrase that part again (so that I don't seem to be imposing my own rules on reincarnation):

Quote:

If cross-species, universe-wide reincarnation is real, it is statistically unlikely than any individual person now living has experienced a past human life. If it is limited to human-to-human transfer then it is statistically odd. So what would explain the claims (in looking around I'm seeing claims of more than 80% when the participants enter into the process believing that discovering past lives is possible) of a vast majority of participants finding just such connections.

If I am wrong and most PLR sessions actually find that nobody present (as statistics would lead us to expect) has previously experienced a human life but rather non-human terrestrial or non-terrestrial life (or if discovery is limited to human-to-human transfer, a smaller than half result, declining the farther back you go) then that is very informative and I appreciate having my understanding corrected, but my other questions are still intriguing to me as well.

bewitched · 02-05-2007, 07:57 PM

Personally, I think Alex has some interesting questions (and don't you feel validated?).

I'm on the fence about this. I have a hard time believing but then where does deja vu come in? Where do "connections" with other people come in?

On the other hand, I think a lot of "PLR" can be explained by the theory of parallel universes (a subsection of superstring theory) which would confirm the experience of other lives.

Alex · 02-05-2007, 09:12 PM

I can't read the whole article but at least with the two paragraphs shown the text does not match the headline.

The headline mentions parallel universes but the text is discussing the implications of an infinite universe. Which, I believe, are different things (though maybe they are connected in the full article).

Since you raised it, though, I'd be curious how parallel universes (and which theory of them) would explain PLR? I don't konw where deja vu comes in, having experienced it many times myself I don't find it to be all the bizarre and requiring extraordinary explanation, any more than a mystical explanation is required for the fact that if I stare at stucco long enough I can find faces in it (the human brain is so inclined towards pattern recognition that it is easily fooled into seeing patterns where none exist). I don't know what "connections" with people means.

bewitched · 02-05-2007, 10:18 PM

Connections to other people meaning a sort of person to person deja vu. You meet someone and feel like you've known them forever.

Insofar as the article, it may not have been the best example. However, infinite space is an inescapable part of parallel universes. If all possibilities and all times exist, they can only do so on an infinite plane. A finite plane would, by definition imply a limited number of universes (since to assume infinity, there could be no constraints on time and space.)

That said, if you assume infinite universes, you must also assume that every outcome, every presupposition, must exist at every time. In some universe, I am married to you, Alex...and everyone else on this board.

Many people have theorized that deja vu and/or past life experiences are an aspect of "crossing over" into other universes. If a single particle of matter can exist in more than one universe at one time (which is a basis of Parallel Universes) then perhaps these things are brief glimpses, a brief existence if you will, in another universe.

Parallel universes also solve the paradox of time travel: if you go back in time, and kill your grandfather, how will you exist to go back in time? If all possibilities exist, you are not born...and you are born.

This also solves the population problem of PLR. If deja vu/PLR are based in the "experience" of parallel universes, population becomes a meaningless point since existence is outside of (or bigger than?) our 3 dimentional world.

I hope I have explained this adequately. This is one of those things that I understand, but have a very difficult time actually verbalizing. That, and if I think about this long enough it makes me a little loopy.

Alex · 02-05-2007, 10:53 PM

There are several competing theories for a multiverse (and just as many well qualified people who don't think it exists or is an unscientific idea of pure metaphysics) and you seem to be combining characteristics of different ones. Also, the existence of any of the possible multiverse structures is not confirmed to any degree other than as implications of pure theory.

That said, if an infinite multiverse based on collapsing probability clouds does exist, you'll all have to admit I am right that free will does not exist (and you already have in some of them).

All that said, the multiverse explanation you offer for PLR still does not explain why the reported results of PLR seem to almost entirely fit into a very narrow band of the possible results, though it would nicely place PLR outside the realm of rational investigation (since any negative result could just be blamed on having contacted a past life in an alternate universe where things did happen as desribed or where "ook ook, grunt, sniffle" is valid medieval French.

bewitched · 02-06-2007, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

where "ook ook, grunt, sniffle" is valid medieval French.

It's not?

If a probability cloud collapses, that world never comes to fruition and never branches into more outcomes.

All outcomes exist, but some outcomes exist more often than others, i.e. some choices are made more often than others. Free will therefore, as we experience it, is associated with the probabilty of each individual outcome being chosen.

Most of my knowledge of many-worlds (or parallel universes) comes from DeWitt's interpretation of Everett. I am by no means an expert, more an "armchair" science geek..

I once read a very good paper explaining the different elements of Everett, I will try to find it tomorrow; no doubt he explains it much better than I do. One of these days I'm going to try to read David Deutsch's book- but I'm not sure that my attention span is that long.

Alex · 02-06-2007, 08:22 AM

Ah, we're using Everett's MWI in particular. Other proposed multiverses do use collapsing waveforms as the source of branching.

I'm familiar with Everett, DeWitt and Deutsch. There is good thoery in there and over the decades more pseudoscience new-age misinterpretation has attached to Everett than just about any other part of quantum mechanics (which draws pseudoscience like flies to whatever draws flies). Also it not hardly accepted reality among the physics community (the people who actually understand the math).

As laid out by Everett, the superpositioned infinite universes are non-communicating and information can not move between the universes. This would seem to argue against it as an explanation for past life regression.

But if in learning past life regression, this is the explanation offered by instructors I'd be very interested to learn this. thecorndogwalker?

02-05-2007, 07:57 PM	#2
bewitched 101% Yummy! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: I know Kung Fu. Posts: 1,413	Personally, I think Alex has some interesting questions (and don't you feel validated?). I'm on the fence about this. I have a hard time believing but then where does deja vu come in? Where do "connections" with other people come in? On the other hand, I think a lot of "PLR" can be explained by the theory of parallel universes (a subsection of superstring theory) which would confirm the experience of other lives. __________________ ~Whitney Wondering about the future of Ellington Woodard's punk@ss sh!t.
	Submit to Quotes

02-05-2007, 09:12 PM	#3
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	I can't read the whole article but at least with the two paragraphs shown the text does not match the headline. The headline mentions parallel universes but the text is discussing the implications of an infinite universe. Which, I believe, are different things (though maybe they are connected in the full article). Since you raised it, though, I'd be curious how parallel universes (and which theory of them) would explain PLR? I don't konw where deja vu comes in, having experienced it many times myself I don't find it to be all the bizarre and requiring extraordinary explanation, any more than a mystical explanation is required for the fact that if I stare at stucco long enough I can find faces in it (the human brain is so inclined towards pattern recognition that it is easily fooled into seeing patterns where none exist). I don't know what "connections" with people means. Last edited by Alex : 02-05-2007 at 09:19 PM.
	Submit to Quotes

02-05-2007, 10:18 PM	#4
bewitched 101% Yummy! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: I know Kung Fu. Posts: 1,413	Connections to other people meaning a sort of person to person deja vu. You meet someone and feel like you've known them forever. Insofar as the article, it may not have been the best example. However, infinite space is an inescapable part of parallel universes. If all possibilities and all times exist, they can only do so on an infinite plane. A finite plane would, by definition imply a limited number of universes (since to assume infinity, there could be no constraints on time and space.) That said, if you assume infinite universes, you must also assume that every outcome, every presupposition, must exist at every time. In some universe, I am married to you, Alex...and everyone else on this board. Many people have theorized that deja vu and/or past life experiences are an aspect of "crossing over" into other universes. If a single particle of matter can exist in more than one universe at one time (which is a basis of Parallel Universes) then perhaps these things are brief glimpses, a brief existence if you will, in another universe. Parallel universes also solve the paradox of time travel: if you go back in time, and kill your grandfather, how will you exist to go back in time? If all possibilities exist, you are not born...and you are born. This also solves the population problem of PLR. If deja vu/PLR are based in the "experience" of parallel universes, population becomes a meaningless point since existence is outside of (or bigger than?) our 3 dimentional world. I hope I have explained this adequately. This is one of those things that I understand, but have a very difficult time actually verbalizing. That, and if I think about this long enough it makes me a little loopy. __________________ ~Whitney Wondering about the future of Ellington Woodard's punk@ss sh!t. Last edited by bewitched : 02-05-2007 at 10:56 PM.
	Submit to Quotes

02-05-2007, 10:53 PM	#5
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	There are several competing theories for a multiverse (and just as many well qualified people who don't think it exists or is an unscientific idea of pure metaphysics) and you seem to be combining characteristics of different ones. Also, the existence of any of the possible multiverse structures is not confirmed to any degree other than as implications of pure theory. That said, if an infinite multiverse based on collapsing probability clouds does exist, you'll all have to admit I am right that free will does not exist (and you already have in some of them). All that said, the multiverse explanation you offer for PLR still does not explain why the reported results of PLR seem to almost entirely fit into a very narrow band of the possible results, though it would nicely place PLR outside the realm of rational investigation (since any negative result could just be blamed on having contacted a past life in an alternate universe where things did happen as desribed or where "ook ook, grunt, sniffle" is valid medieval French.
	Submit to Quotes

02-06-2007, 08:22 AM	#7
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	Ah, we're using Everett's MWI in particular. Other proposed multiverses do use collapsing waveforms as the source of branching. I'm familiar with Everett, DeWitt and Deutsch. There is good thoery in there and over the decades more pseudoscience new-age misinterpretation has attached to Everett than just about any other part of quantum mechanics (which draws pseudoscience like flies to whatever draws flies). Also it not hardly accepted reality among the physics community (the people who actually understand the math). As laid out by Everett, the superpositioned infinite universes are *non-communicating* and information can not move between the universes. This would seem to argue against it as an explanation for past life regression. But if in learning past life regression, this is the explanation offered by instructors I'd be very interested to learn this. thecorndogwalker?
	Submit to Quotes