No matter your politics, watch this.

[Alex]

Except that the sleepyjeff's post didn't do that:

Wow.....in just 30 years we have gone from debating whether or not a bomb that could kill a million people but leave all the buildings intact was immoral or not to whether or not waterboarding is torture.....

Say what you want but I think that's progress.

We've gone from a point in time where waterboarding being torture is a settled issue and the use of neutron bombs is up for debate to one where waterboarding being torture is apparently an unsettled issue and the use of neutron bombs is up for debate.

The U.S. no longer has nuetron bombs not because it became the official policy of our country that their use is untenable but because they were viewed as no longer having any deterrent value following the end of the Cold War and therefore were low hanging fruit in the arms reduction treaties. It is still official policy that use of neutron bombs is still warranted.

Also, it is a non sequitur to the extent that it contributes absolutely nothing. Anything bitched about now you could say "isn't it amazing how in just 140 years we've gone from killing each other over slavery to discussing the minutiae of torture.

To point out that at some point in the past things have been worse has no relevancy to whether the present is bad. Also, it presupposes that the theoretical use of neutron bombs is a greater evil than the actual use of waterboarding, which is not necessarily the case.

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by Alex

Except that the sleepyjeff's post didn't do that:

sleepyjeff is suffucient.....I dropped the the ages ago.

As to your point I will concede that my observence does offer little to the actual argument at hand but still assert that we have progressed in a positive direction by the very fact that what we get all in a huff about these days is, in my most humble opinion, pretty tame compared to what we were concerned with just a generation or two ago.

[Jazzman]

Originally Posted by Alex

Except that the sleepyjeff's post didn't do that:

Except that it certainly did. You may not see it that way, but I do.

Originally Posted by Alex

Also, it is a non sequitur to the extent that it contributes absolutely nothing. Anything bitched about now you could say "isn't it amazing how in just 140 years we've gone from killing each other over slavery to discussing the minutiae of torture.

To point out that at some point in the past things have been worse has no relevancy to whether the present is bad.

Again, your opinion. I think it contributes just fine in that it is an interesting point and good food for thought. And I am sorry that you do not see progress simply because we have not reached a utopia, but that doesn't mean that it is not here. You say that it is irrelevant, just as it is irrelevant that we are no longer killing each other over slavery. I say that these are both clear signs that we have progressed as a society. But then, I'm not a pessimist nor do I have to be overly critical and dismissive of society in order to feel intellectually significant.

Originally Posted by Alex

Also, it presupposes that the theoretical use of neutron bombs is a greater evil than the actual use of waterboarding, which is not necessarily the case.

It doesn't presuppose anything. Pouring water over a bad guys face until he starts sputtering is nowhere near as severe or horrific as killing hundreds or even thousands of innocent people with nuclear radiation. As I said earlier, the world is not black and white and bad doesn't just equal bad. There are measures of severity. If there weren't we'd either electrocute shoplifters or give rapists a $50 fine.