Jewish Defence league. Are they really that dumb?

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

I think it's a drastic oversimplification to say that evil people don't recognize their own evilness. Perhaps they rationalize it, perhaps they act regardless ... but i really doubt people like Hitler and his ilk simply believe they are "good."

Sure they do - as they were ridding the world of another "evil," the Jews.

Horrible things are done by men who believe they are doing good - again this is why I think it important to remember Hitler was a man, and the things he was capable of, we all are capable of. As long as we continue to see "evil" as "other" we will always be its servant.

[ozron]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

I want to coin a new word ---- "Nontroversy".

Brilliant!

I'll second - can we call for a vote?

[blueerica]

I like nontroversy.

In the sense that this quote seems to have been taken (I am online for the first time in a few days and am catching up, so I'm not reading for every detail in this thread), it seems to me that this isn't useful as far as just talking about Hitler, but talking about a myriad of choices that are made here and there, consistently, and everything in between. The same comparisons could be made of any leader, and of any one of us... that what we do now we may think of as "good" -- but perhaps it isn't.

Well, I guess I'm just saying that the quote is particularly relevant when looking at other subjects and persons. Compare a Hitler to a George Bush, to a JFK, to Kim Jong Il, to whomever... though Hitler pretty much made the benchmark on "evil," had things turned out differently in history, we might... or rather they might say the same of others.

I mean, what if the Nazis won? Would we/they be saying he was so evil? It's hard to say what this alternate reality would hold for us, and certainly there were enough people supporting Hitler and his ideas to have kept him in power as long as he was.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Prudence

A Is Bhutto a shining example of female empowerment in the Muslim world or a famously corrupt politician?

Neither, she's been killed in a suicide attack.

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by Jazzman

Sidenote: this is not true at all. The German people were suffering the effects of the Treaty of Versailles. They were demoralized and felt oppressed and Hitler took advantage of a movement (set into motion long before he arose) to reinvigorate Germany to seize power for himself. One of the first things he did was eliminate any political opposition, including top military leaders, which might stand in his way. The German people supported him as far as rebuilding Germany and its economy, but they didn't at all wholesale believe in exterminating Jews, world domination and all that. They just wanted a stronger Germany. Remember that a lot of the Jews who were killed were German. Look into accounts of German life during the war and you'll see that by and large, with the exception of the rich upper class the German populace suffered greatly under Hitler and disliked him as much as, if not more than, anyone else.

I do remember. They're in the family tree. They were also upper class. At least until their properties and businesses were confiscated. And I didn't say that the majority of Germans went so far as to favor mass extermination, although I think that's an open question. They certainly favored discrimination, confiscation and allowing their kids to beat my dad up for being Jewish so that he skipped school most of the time.

[sleepyjeff]

All I know is that if I were a Jewish person living in Nazi Germany and I needed a way out I would not of sought out a "good" Nazi but would rather pin my hopes to a corrupt one.

[Deebs]

I also like Nontroversy.

This definitely qualifies, but still fun to discuss.

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

I think it's a drastic oversimplification to say that evil people don't recognize their own evilness. Perhaps they rationalize it, perhaps they act regardless ...

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

Horrible things are done by men who believe they are doing good -

Such great points, both.

Do you have to be a sane person to acknowledge, even in your own head, that you are making a conscious choice to do something bad or wrong? I don't believe so. I think anyone is capable of discerning that, even the vilest human. Might not stop them, but I think they are able to own it, then justify it. I agree that it is an oversimplification to say that evil doers don't know that they are.

Also agree that there are truly horrific things done (every day) with steadfast belief that it is for the greater good.

[innerSpaceman]

I do many questionable things every day for the greater good, and I'm only aware of half of them.

[Chernabog]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

I do many questionable things every day for the greater good, and I'm only aware of half of them.

But of course -- however, in Hitler's case, I don't think that someone who is filled with such a lust for power is thinking about the greater good, or is merely misguided. He's thinking about his own selfish a$$ and fulfilling his addiction to make people bend to his will. Smith's nontroversy was an oversimplification of what evil is (or about one's own perception of evil) -- yeah I don't think that SMITH meant harm, but I do believe Hitler did (and that Smith's comments were beyond stupid).

That being said, I think the JDL would have taken a better tactic to refute Smith's comments, show why Smith is misguided, rather than aiming a nuke at Smith himself.