Down with HFCS!

[Chernabog]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Actually, neither of them is terrible for you if you're eating in moderation.

Meth isn't terrible for you if you take it in moderation either.

OK yeah that was a cheap strawman. But people's ideas of "moderation" are vastly different. Having a high-fat, high-calorie meal once in a while is fine. But if that's more than one or two meals per week, that isn't moderation, it's the rule (unless you are an athlete and are burning a seriously high amount of calories, in which your weight goals are probably different anyway, or you have an abnormally fast metabolism). Foods high in fat raise your cholesterol levels and clog your arteries. Sorry, but that is bad for you. I find, for me personally, eating a Double-Double is hard to justify except a couple times a year (and only then, it's if I've been doing the regular gym thing and not kidding myself about how many calories I've eaten that week).

I think the feeling of "satisfaction" though when you eat is sort of a cop-out. You can't just eat until you're satisfied. If you're eating ANYTHING after you're full, you're overeating. Frankly, if you ARE full, you're overeating. Like Morrigoon says, it is portion control, but in that portion one needs to take into account how many calories one wants to eat, and stop. You can eat MORE (volume-wise) of lower calorie food.

At the beginning of any weight-loss regimen, where your calories expended are greater than your calorie intake, I know I'm going to feel hungry. I try and avoid this by eating smaller portions at regular intervals, but I'm still gonna feel hungry at the beginning. As long as my calories are around 1400 per day, I'm gonna feel hungry but I'm not starving myself (I think under 1200 calories, your body goes into starvation mode, which has its own set of issues).

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Originally Posted by Chernabog

Frankly, if you ARE full, you're overeating.

This isn't necessarily true. My periods of greatest health have involved eating very small meals very regularly. My stomach shrinks pretty quickly, and pretty soon a half of a restaurant sandwich feels like the equivalent of three filled buffet plates during non-healthy periods. The trick there is to keep up that regularity, or you'll end up feeling really hungry and tripping up by eating more than you can comfortably digest, thus stretching back out the stomach. Bleah.

Sure, HFCS isn't particularly good for you, nor are partially hydrogenated oils or "diet" foods with little beneficial substance. Eating less and moving more, focusing on fresh produce and less-processed foods... all these things are great. The real problem a lot of people have, though, is that their eating is based on behavioral development. Somewhere along the line, people have learned: food makes me feel better. Food makes me forget. Food makes me calmer. Food makes me remember good things. Food makes me feel less lonely. Those are problems that are much less easy to solve than simply buying the right kinds of foods.

And on top of that, when behavioral addictions are involved, unlike alcoholics, over-eaters don't have the liberty of quitting cold turkey. (Well, they can quit eating cold turkey. But they can't quit eating.)

What I'm saying is: it's a multifaceted, deep-level problem and it's not going to be fixed unless people make the behavioral changes for themselves.

On another note - there's nothing wrong with putting vinegar AND oil on one's salad, if you're not overdoing it. Olive oil is very good for you - and it's not medically advised to cut out fats completely.

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

On another note - there's nothing wrong with putting vinegar AND oil on one's salad, if you're not overdoing it. Olive oil is very good for you - and it's not medically advised to cut out fats completely.

I love olive oil, but instead of bathing in it via salad and stir fry, I drizzle it sparingly on steamed or raw vegetables with the calmness of a shaman and the meticulousness of tea ceremony.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Originally Posted by Strangler Lewis

I love olive oil, but instead of bathing in it via salad and stir fry, I drizzle it sparingly on steamed or raw vegetables with the calmness of a shaman and the meticulousness of tea ceremony.

Well, sure. This is why I said "if you're not overdoing it." A teaspoon of olive oil is not bad for you.

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

The real problem a lot of people have, though, is that their eating is based on behavioral development. Somewhere along the line, people have learned: food makes me feel better. Food makes me forget. Food makes me calmer. Food makes me remember good things. Food makes me feel less lonely. Those are problems that are much less easy to solve than simply buying the right kinds of foods.

And on top of that, when behavioral addictions are involved, unlike alcoholics, over-eaters don't have the liberty of quitting cold turkey. (Well, they can quit eating cold turkey. But they can't quit eating.)

However, like alcoholics, the eating (or drinking) to feel good is the same. I could replace the work "alcohol" with the word "food" in the italicized segment above and it would fit just fine.

Sure, I can quit drinking cold turkey, but that isn't going to deal with the problems of my feelings. I found that I don't necessarily need to ACT on my feelings. Sure, I feel like crap and want to eat or drink, but I don't have to do it. I don't even really need to know WHY I am feeling the way I am. Feelings and can be simply acknowledged but, when it comes down to living with them, I usually just ignore them as something my sick brain has cooked up to throw me a curve and I don't give them a lot of importance. If I did, I'd spend a great deal of time on a roller coaster of emotions, eating and drinking, being fat and drunk and STILL not being happy.

Most of the time, I don't give the feelings that lead to destructive behavior too much attention. If I do, i find it just give me a great excuse to do the things I really don't want to do "because I feel so awful......" Boo hoo, poor me, pity party of one, please.

[Morrigoon]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

However, like alcoholics, the eating (or drinking) to feel good is the same. I could replace the work "alcohol" with the word "food" in the italicized segment above and it would fit just fine.

Sure, I can quit drinking cold turkey, but that isn't going to deal with the problems of my feelings. I found that I don't necessarily need to ACT on my feelings. Sure, I feel like crap and want to eat or drink, but I don't have to do it. I don't even really need to know WHY I am feeling the way I am. Feelings and can be simply acknowledged but, when it comes down to living with them, I usually just ignore them as something my sick brain has cooked up to throw me a curve and I don't give them a lot of importance. If I did, I'd spend a great deal of time on a roller coaster of emotions, eating and drinking, being fat and drunk and STILL not being happy.

Most of the time, I don't give the feelings that lead to destructive behavior too much attention. If I do, i find it just give me a great excuse to do the things I really don't want to do "because I feel so awful......" Boo hoo, poor me, pity party of one, please.

Right, but you don't have to turn around and have just half a drink 3 times a day.

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by Morrigoon

Right, but you don't have to turn around and have just half a drink 3 times a day.

Believe me, I tried!

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

Feelings and can be simply acknowledged but, when it comes down to living with them, I usually just ignore them as something my sick brain has cooked up to throw me a curve and I don't give them a lot of importance.

Lovely that you can. Others are still learning to handle our feelings and the way we behave in response to them - and as you know, it's quite a challenge to change behavior, even when you can see what the kind of behavior is that you want to emulate. It takes real commitment and reprogramming. That's all I'm saying.

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

Lovely that you can. Others are still learning to handle our feelings and the way we behave in response to them - and as you know, it's quite a challenge to change behavior, even when you can see what the kind of behavior is that you want to emulate. It takes real commitment and reprogramming. That's all I'm saying.

For me, it was not so much about "learning" it was about "doing". I spend a lot of time trying to "learn" and intellectualize the process which didn't work at all. For me, the phrase "I'm still learning" was just an excuse to continue to do the same thing. I had to stop learning and start practicing. That's the ONLY way I came to actually CHANGE my behaviors. It's a leap, but it's a leap that I had to make if I wanted any results. But, "working on changing my behaviors" was really saying "just doing the same old bad behaviors" Awareness did absolutely nothing to facilitate change. Action did.

[Chernabog]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

It takes real commitment and reprogramming. That's all I'm saying.

It does, and it sure ain't easy. But it can be done -- I'm a big subscriber to what NA was talking about -- acting your way into right thinking. You force yourself to take contrary action until your thinking eventually follows, instead of the other way around.

The "clean plate club" thing my parents did too. But that was because I ate next to nothing as a child. Or you feel like you're "wasting" money if you go out to a restaurant and don't eat everything. But that's why doggie bags were invented