Question for gay men

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

I'm continually clueless as to what men anyone might find attractive simply because I have no personal criteria for what an attractive man is.

See, I don't get this. (Not doubting your personal deal, but I don't get this sentiment in general.)

Straight women seem to know very well when another woman is attractive, even if they are not personally attracted to them. I think many straight men (GD and others exempted) are completely aware of what makes a man attractive, and full well know it when they see it.






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i don't know why lashbear likes that criss-cross cleavage pattern. Oh, wait, that's the red "X" that means I can't see his admired cleavage picture. Bah.



Visible avatar mojo to Gemini Cricket. God, I love Le Jazz Hot, and Victora had to strap her boobies down to pull off her cross-dressing stunt, and they ended up looking like two empty wallets!

[Alex]

I understand "classicly" attractive men and can predict that. I have no problem predicting that Brad Pitt will be found attractive. The David archetype is easy, it is around the edges where I get lost.

I have no idea what it is about Bill Clinton that so many women find (or found) attractive. Or Viggo Mortensen. Or Johnny Depp.

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

See, I don't get this. (Not doubting your personal deal, but I don't get this sentiment in general.)

I don't get it either - I can certainly pick out a more attractive man and have a sense as to what I find attractive in a man versus general consensus. I wonder if it's just a cultural artifact of men lacking the vocabulary to even talk about it - it's just not a conversation straight men have.

Then maybe you have to go to the concept of men's "success" being their most "attractive" feature. Men can more easily talk about toys, status symbols, competitive events, etc.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Alex

I understand "classicly" attractive men and can predict that.

Well, yeah, I suppose in that sense I'm not completely blind. I mean, I have no problem figuring out that Tom Brady and the Abercombie models are guys that most women/gay men will find attractive.

What I am blind to is identifying and distinguishing the details that account for personal taste. For instance, I know that CP's taste in men differs from the average woman, she is rarely attracted to the men that are presented by most media as attractive. I know that much. But even after 12 years together, I routinely fail to correctly guess who she DOES find attractive. You'd think by now, but nope.

I suppose it's because I am simply not familiar enough with the details of men's appearance. I don't really pay that much attention to them, so I'm not attuned to the subtle differences that people who actually find them attractive can see.

When I do see a man that I can identify as attractive, it's an entirely different identification than when I see a woman I find attractive. It's always, "Yep, chicks will dig him," not, "Yep, that's attractive." I think the best analogy is when I see a well executed example of a style I don't like. "Hey, that's a really well done country-kitsch kitchen. I would kill myself if I had to live in it, but I can see why someone who likes that sort of thing would dig it."

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Straight women seem to know very well when another woman is attractive, even if they are not personally attracted to them. I think many straight men (GD and others exempted) are completely aware of what makes a man attractive, and full well know it when they see it.

I believe that there is an overall societal stigma against ANYTHING reflecting possible male-to-male attraction; even something as simple as acknowledging that another man might be attractive. To do so would imply a homosexuality and that would be considered perverse or unacceptable behavior. I am definitely not agreeing with this, I just see it in a generalized sense.

Whereas that same society thinks it is fine for women to be able to make attractiveness judgments about other women without thinking that there is any homosexuality/perversion/etc. involved.

Overall, I believe that our society as a whole has historically more readily accepted lesbian relationships than homosexual relationships*. Not that it is a black and white issue, more of a "lesbian relationships are slightly less unacceptable than gay relationships." Think about when we were kids: if a girl played with boy toys, she was just a tomboy. But if a boy wanted to play with Barbie, there was something wrong with him.

Further, we see a much higher level of acceptance of "bi-curious" females than "bi-curious" males.

Many years ago, when I was a DJ for a swingers group** (no, not the kind of swinging that Lindyhop enjoys), the rough estimate was that 70-80% of the women were bisexual and this was normal (for this group) and fully accepted. However (in what I always considered a hypocrisy), ANY contact between men was verboten.

Personally, I am able to look at some men and think they are attractive. I have found (as one might expect of a couple together for 22 years) that many of the traits I find attractive in a man are shared with my wife: what she likes I tend to like and what she dislikes, I tend to dislike. Neither of us like the big massive body builders. She goes nuts for Brendan Frasier in George of the Jungle (yes, it is at best a mediocre movie, but it is ALL about how he looks) and I too think he looks hot.

But I think my attitude is because I have made a conscious effort to get in touch with my feminine side. No, this has nothing to do with my sexuality (although it has affected it), but more about being in touch with my softer, compassionate, etc traits. I hold the belief that we ALL have both masculine and feminine traits, but that society has forced us to only identify with our gender.





* One thing I have never had a solid handle on is the nomenclature of gay relationships. Two women together are generally labeled "lesbians", which is a definitive indicator that it is two women. But there is not (that I am aware of) a specific and commonly used (outside of slang terms) man-to-man label that is truly applicable to men only. Often, the labels "gay" and "homosexual" are used for man-to-man relationships, but both of these technically apply to either gender. Am I missing or forgetting something?

** No, I never partook in any of the activities (other than the occasional woman giving me a grope or display), but boy did I see a lot!

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

...Many years ago, when I was a DJ for a swingers group** (no, not the kind of swinging that Lindyhop enjoys), the rough estimate was that 70-80% of the women were bisexual and this was normal (for this group) and fully accepted. However (in what I always considered a hypocrisy), ANY contact between men was verboten....

Traditionally, men have been considered superior to women (not what I believe, by any means - just an historical fact). I think that the perception was (and still is, for many) that when two men have sex, one of them “must” be penetrated; and if a man is penetrated, he is now lowered to the status of a woman. But if two women have sex, they remain at an equal status – or one may even gain near male status if they are “the butch one”. Less of a stigma for woman on woman sex.