Yes, we can.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

If a bully says "meet me after school and we'll "talk" " he's probably not going to be giving anything up other than the behavior he is doing just to make you "talk" in the first place....and at that he will only give it up until he wants something else.

When I think of a bully, I think of someone who has a noticeable physical advantage and uses that advantage to coerce through intimidation and force. But none of the groups that Obama would talk to even remotely resembles that definition. We would be negotiating from a position of power - and that's a little different from the scenario you describe. In fact, from an outside perspective, we could often be viewed as the bully, or at least as having the potential to be. The other side, not so much.

[wendybeth]

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

Reagan met with Gorbachev.....thus spelling the end to the Soviet empire(well, that worked out real well for Gorbachev )

Bush met with Putin..........Allies, hello

Bush met with the Japanese Prime Minister..........in 91' not 41'

So, Reagan shouldn't have met with Gorby, then? (Going by your rather tortured logic a few posts back...)

Putin is as much an ally as the Saudis or their ilk.

Japan was in the middle of taunting us for being lazy-assed, uncultured people who deserved the economic ass kicking they were dealing when George Sr. made his deposit on the PM.

Face it- nothing Obama does will ever be right for you. I understand; I feel much the same way about McCain and I certainly feel that way about Dubya. Oh, and I wouldn't gloat too much about the Soviet Union. We're headed down that same path.

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Ok, and then what's wrong with negotiating? You think we don't give something when we go to war?

Why does it have to be one or the other?

Originally Posted by wendybeth

So, Reagan shouldn't have met with Gorby, then? (Going by your rather tortured logic a few posts back...)

No, no, no....Gorby should not have met with Reagan.

Putin is as much an ally as the Saudis or their ilk.

Yep, both are allies.....not enemies.

Japan was in the middle of taunting us for being lazy-assed, uncultured people who deserved the economic ass kicking they were dealing when George Sr. made his deposit on the PM.

They were still our military and economic allies....surely you can see the difference between Japan in 91' and Iran today?

Face it- nothing Obama does will ever be right for you.

I wouldn't say "nothing" but you are not far off the mark. I am a conservative and see Obama as a threat to the direction I wish this country to go(to be frank, I think McCain is also a threat to conservatism, but at least he might meet my expectations halfway every once in a while).....so yeah, of course I am going to nitpick and point out every little thing he does that disturbs me...even if only a little. I try to stay on the issues and not pick on his bowling score, where he was educated or his name but instead focus on things I really think matter, again, if only a little. I expect that if I am being unfair or just plain wrong lots of people here will point that out to me.

Oh, and I wouldn't gloat too much about the Soviet Union. We're headed down that same path.

Yep, nothing last forever and one day the US will go the way of the Roman Empire....but since predictions of our demise have been constant since 1776 you will have to excuse me if I don't stop my gloating over the end of an evil experiment in the bondage of the human soul we sometimes call the old Soviet Union

[€uroMeinke]

Perhaps our next pres should take a vow of silence? Listening to Clinton's victory speech on the way home tonight makes me think that might just be a good idea (should she get the job)

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

When I think of a bully, I think of someone who has a noticeable physical advantage and uses that advantage to coerce through intimidation and force. But none of the groups that Obama would talk to even remotely resembles that definition. We would be negotiating from a position of power - and that's a little different from the scenario you describe. In fact, from an outside perspective, we could often be viewed as the bully, or at least as having the potential to be. The other side, not so much.

Yeah, I displayed a pretty poor analogy there. What I was basically saying is that if you reward bad behavior with "talks" don't expect the bad behavior to decrease.....maybe you can help me with an analogy for what I am trying to say(help me, not you )

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

Perhaps our next pres should take a vow of silence? Listening to Clinton's victory speech on the way home tonight makes me think that might just be a good idea (should she get the job)

Didn't Carter do something like that back in 79-80?

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

What I was basically saying is that if you reward bad behavior with "talks" don't expect the bad behavior to decrease.....maybe you can help me with an analogy for what I am trying to say(help me, not you )

Well, I don't know that I can offer an analogy that helps you, my friend since I don't agree with your position.

I don't see negotiation as a reward, per se. It is an attempt to come to a mutually beneficial agreement. And if it is successful, both sides give something up and both sides benefit - which would indeed cause bad behavior to decrease.

The alternative is to take the stubborn, unmovable approach - which often leads to plenty of unnecessary violence and death, and/or a backlash against the country that was unwilling to negotiate. In the end, you retain the "toughest guy on the block" status, but you are still viewed as a pompous bully, rather than a nation attempting a solution that could have kept the peace.

[Prudence]

I see negotiation at this point as having less to do with those involved with the meeting and more to do with world-wide perception. The US doesn't have the international backing it needs and playing the game perhaps will correct some of the damage done there.

[tracilicious]

When do we find out who gets the dem nom?

[cirquelover]

Maybe after Oregon. I'm just thrilled that all eyes are on us for once, usually it's all over before they even think about us. The candidates have been busy scouring the state, even getting close to us, but we haven't been able to make it to see them. I hear they'll be back this weekend, maybe Gary will try to get tickets to see Obama.