The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Reality check - Pelosi has no desire to stir up Catholics when they are trying to secure a large portion of the Catholic vote, which is one thing Biden was certianly selected for, and Obama certainly doesn't want her to.

She has every desire to stir up Catholic leadership and get the support of Catholic voters who are increasingly interested in being empowered beyond what official church policy wants them to think. She has every desire to convince Catholic voters that the existence of church doctrine against an issue does not mean you must de-facto vote for candidates whose positions are in line with doctrine.

Either that or she's a total moron who's just spouting things without doing any research and who doesn't know that the official stance of the Catholic church is against abortion. Yeah, that's definitely the more likely answer.

[Alex]

I'd just like to say I was in no way attempting to provide an interpretation of what Pelosi meant. I have no idea, I didn't see or hear the comment in context. I don't even know for certain that the quote here is verbatim correct.

I simply meant that regardless of the intent of the statement presented, it presents a factual truth about the Catholic Church being deeply divided (at least in America) on the issue of abortion. It is certainly possible to try and appeal to the Catholic population using positions at odds with the official church position; the death penalty, birth control, war, and border control are other areas where very large segments of the Catholic population take personal positions strongly at odds with official church positions.

But Pelosi may very well have misspoken. Though I doubt that as a Catholic (regardless of how devout), and as a pro-choice politician representing many very devout Catholics that she is unaware of the Pope's position on the issue.

[Gemini Cricket]

What bugs me about the whole Catholic Church/Biden issue is how the Archbishop of Denver, Charles Chaput, is warning Biden not to come to his church and expect to receive communion. Once again, the church is politicizing one of the sacraments. Last time I checked, communion was for every Catholic, not just the ones bishops deem "worthy Catholics'.

In fact, the Red Mass that the CC holds every year is specifically a mass for politicians, lawmakers. ie. My dad leads the Red Mass in Hawai'i. If he denied pro-choice politicians communion, not many people would be receiving it that day.

And once again, the media and Republicans are shedding light on this issue like they really cared about what the Catholic Church thinks. It's just brought to light to be a wedge issue to make Biden look bad. Just like Kerry, just like 2004.

Pelosi is right, I know a lot of "choose life" Catholics.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I just found a transcript...and it's very different than I thought based on scaeagles post. My analysis based on his reporting of it remains, but his reporting I feel is inaccurate.What she said is that the Church has held different positions throughout its history. That even though it's clear what its current position is, it hasn't always been the same. No where in there does she say, "The Church is currently not clear on when life begins." She says, "The Church has been divided in the past about it."

Here's the transcript

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

What bugs me about the whole Catholic Church/Biden issue is how the Archbishop of Denver, Charles Chaput, is warning Biden not to come to his church and expect to receive communion. Once again, the church is politicizing one of the sacraments. Last time I checked, communion was for every Catholic, not just the ones bishops deem "worthy Catholics'.

I am not a Catholc, but isn't communion in the Catholic church for those considered to be in "good standing", as in in line with the stated doctrine of the church?

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I am not a Catholc, but isn't communion in the Catholic church for those considered to be in "good standing", as in in line with the stated doctrine of the church?

In my 16 years of going to church as a kid, never did I see any priest stand there and refer to a clipboard first before distributing communion to someone. How would they enforce "good standing"? It's almost impossible. Communion was for everyone. I never saw anyone be denied the Eucharist...

[scaeagles]

And regarding Pelosi - she stated, and I believe if she has studied it as she says she has from the point of view of a Catholic - she said specifically that it has only been church doctrine for the last 50 years or so. This is indeed grossly inaccurate and I believe calculated to say that the Catholic doctrine has changed on this issue. It has not.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

In my 16 years of going to church as a kid, never did I see any priest stand there and refer to a clipboard first before distributing communion to someone. How would they enforce "good standing"? It's almost impossible. Communion was for everyone. I never saw anyone be denied the Eucharist...

I get that. Of course there isn't a quiz. I'm just wondering, though, that if a known, say, prostitute who was out on the corner selling herself daily came in, would they serve her communion? It would be known that as a prostitute she was not in good standing. I'm wondering if that has something to do with it.

[innerSpaceman]

scaeagles, you've been outted. Bammo is the term du jour around here I think.

[scaeagles]

We've been over this. I'm not gay.