Debates of all ilk

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Right. Context. When you wrote what I linked to, the context of your post was in reference to what McCain said (at least it was only a few posts after when MBC pointed it out). YOu didn't seem to care about the context in which McCain used it....which was complimentary to both parties.

To be clear, I have no problem with what Obama said.

I wasn't talking about the context of my quote. But.... Whatever.

Watch the Olbermann video I linked to. He states my stand on the use of 9/11 by Republicans perfectly.

[Tenigma]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

Thank goodness no one said "Maverick".
I lost track of how many times "my friends", "look" (mostly by Obama) and "fundamental" were used.

I completely agree, "maverick" would've had me doing the ol'

If nothing else, the debate to me didn't seem to have any clear winner on answers. They both did OK, but for the most part it was a snoozer. There were a couple of interesting moments, though, including:

McCain trying to (I *think*) say jokingly, "That one." Except as with most of the rest f his "jokes" during the debates, it fell flat. Worse, because of his general body posture and his odd whisper-speak tone of voice, it actually gave the phrase a kind of cruel tone. I can just see the Penguin referring to Batman and saying, "And you know who tried to save the burning building? That one! Nyuck nyuck nyuck." I don't think that's what he wanted to convey.

...and the bloggers are all over that one. "How dare McCain use such a phrase! He can't even bring himself to say Obama's name!"

Whatever. I think it's blown out of proportion. I thought it was an attempt a humor that fell flat. Although I REALLY don't think McCain meant it in an insulting manner, unfortunately for McCain, I think it came off that way.

When asked by Brokaw whom they would consider appointing as Secretary of the Treasury, McCain's first answer was, "Not you, Tom." HUH?

Yet again, McCain was trying to be funny. And it didn't work. I think part of the problem was that he didn't say anything else in that sentence, and it came out kind of brusque, so whatever disarming quality a joke may have provided there, completely missed. Brokaw was kind of taken aback by it initially too, I think.

When Obama mentioned that McCain said accused him of being green behind the ears and just spouting off, and how McCain is somber and responsible, McCain laughs in the background and says thank you.

Unfortunately for McCain, I think Obama had that whole line memorized... including that pregnant pause (and there was NO way to know that McCain would say anything, although it was almost like McCain fell right into the trap), because in his next breath, Obama said McCain was the guy who sang "bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran," called for the annihilation of North Korea, and said "next up, Baghdad."

Kind of shut McCain up real fast, that line did. I thought that was Obama's big zinger (especially since McCain took the bait).

However, Sen. Obama, the line is NOT "bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran." You left off a few bombs there. Would've been better if you'd said it right.

[And while I'm at it, McCain may have mentioned that as some sort of inside joke or attempt at humor, but I heard Rachel Maddow later say that the McCain camp started using the Beach Boys' BarbaraAnn song in his stumpings afterwards, so it may have been a joke but they did run with it.]

Originally Posted by Alex

Also, while it may sound good and seem directed at helping Main Street, but the government simply buying all the mortgages and repegging them at current value is simply a horrible idea. For either end of the political spectrum.

I'm not sure what McCain is thinking with that.

I think McCain wanted to come out with something new and shiny, that he could offer to the audience as a take-away from the debate. I agree that just buying them up is terrible; it will simply encourage everyone who feels even remotely financially challenged to throw up their hands and ask for government assistance. It would be far easier to have government help these folks renegotiate their mortgages to get a better interest rate or help them get off of their adjustable-rate mortgages so it's not fluctuating so much.

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

I have to wonder why John McCain was so clearly uncomfortable with the format he pushed and pushed for. He even got in a dig about Obama not wanting to participate in Town Hall debates. Yet Obama was poised, comfortable and ultimately presidential. McCain was nervous, testy, petulant and obviously ill-at ease.

That's because the debate format from last night was unlike any town hall format McCain's ever had. That wasn't a town hall. Like Alex said, it was two parallel press conferences.

The town halls McCain does is much more free-wheeling. The moderator barely moderates at all. The audience last night were required to read off the question they had submitted; the regular ones don't have such restrictions. And most of all, in town halls the candidate gets to take more time answering the question, and then have a back-and-forth exchange with the person asking the question. The audience member can ask for clarification, disagree with the candidate, whatever. It has the potential to be a very interesting exchange.

This town hall didn't resemble anything like that. It was terrible.

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

"Steady hand at the tiller" is not a line he should have used, much less TWICE.

Very ineffective for me because I didn't know what a tiller was. Since it's a rudder on a small boat, it makes sense since McCain is an old Navy guy, but I think it would've been far more effective for him to use the imagery of navigating a large carrier through dangerous waters or something. Instead, "tiller" made me think of a till plowing through a little vegetable garden. So I got this image in my head of an old man holding the till in an old garden. Plodding and old. Not good.

Originally Posted by Alex

Of course, I'm not sure why anybody would agree to moderate such an event in the first place. [Brokaw's] only job was to read note cards out loud.

I thought it was amusing at the end when the two senators went to stand together to face the audience, and in so doing, blocked Brokaw's view of the teleprompter... and Brokaw had to ask them to move so he could read the monitor. lol.

[innerSpaceman]

Time Limits - -this was the first time i can recall that the "stop lights" were clearly visible on screen, since they were set up on the floor of a theater-in-the-round.

And Brokaw did not wait until the answers were over, he was constantly making noises and motions to the candidates to indicate that time was up ... but he did not go so far as to be rude enough to directly interrupt United States Senators. Sheesh.

Brokaw was easily the best moderator of the current batch so far. While he didn't chide the candidates for failing to answer the questions, he repeatedly did so for failing to follow the agreed rules of format, but did that without being completely improper and rude. He is not a man with a hook on vaudeville night.


It bugged me insanely when Obama refused to even remotely answer the question on one or two occassions. Just as Swiftboating is a now verb, Palining has quickly become one, too. He Palined more than once, and it was shameful.



That said, he kicked McCain's sorry old asz.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Strangler Lewis

Turns out there's nothing gay about "Moby Dick."

I'll say. Yccck. We don't like it that much.

[innerSpaceman]

And thanks, Tenigma, for that explanation of real town hall vs. faux town hall.

And so, the error still goes to McCain for approving faux town hall ... when it's just going to look to the TV viewer seeing their first McCain town hall wonder why he looks so unbelievably uncomfortable in his preferred format.

[tracilicious]

I felt it was appropriate for Obama to focus on correcting McCain's misstatements before he addressed the question at hand. If he had just let some of those comments sit and moved on, he'd have looked like a complete arsehole. I'm glad that he focused more on saying what he needed to than he did on flashing lights.

I thought Brokaw kicked a$$ as a moderator. McCains, "Not you, Tom," comment irked me to no end. Completely out of place and just totally rude.

McCain looked sooooo old!

I think in general Obama answered questions more specifically than McCain. Though his complete non-answering of the last question was beyond annoying. He could have pulled off something inspiring and smooth and he totally failed.

What were the bracelets they were wearing?

[Alex]

Watch the first debate tapes for explanation of the bracelets.

They are bracelets naming a soldier killed in Iraq. For McCain his was given by someone asking that he make sure the soldier not die in vain and this means keeping the war going to "victory." For Obama, his came from a mother asking that no other mother be put through what she was and this means getting out of the distraction that is Iraq and being more restrictive in the use of force and with much better defined targets.

[Barry Egan]

It looks like Brokaw had some work done.

[Tenigma]

Originally Posted by tracilicious

What were the bracelets they were wearing?

They're memory bracelets for fallen soldiers from Iraq. You can find YouTube videos from the first presidential debate the other week where they talk about it. McCain's was given to him by a mom who asked that McCain "don't give up the cause" while Obama's was given to him by a mom who asked that "other moms don't have to experience the pain" of losing a child to soldiering.

[innerSpaceman]

Hahaha, is anybody besides me amused at Tenigma and Alex parroting each other?




Poor John. He tried to lighten things up with humor, and it failed every time. In fact, backfired badly ... even though I think it was clear his intent was to be funny, not mean. But he should have stopped after the second or third failed attempt at levity.


"Not you, Tom" was a really messed up thing to say out of the blue.

"That one" was so tone deaf, especially after insulting the intelligence of that other black guy who asked you a question. Net result: Racism, asshole.


There were about half a dozen other jokes that fell flat.

Don't quit your day job, John.


That, plus your attitude, plus your infirmaties on display, plus the sinister way you smile. Maybe those last two aren't your fault. And I don't doubt your attempts at humor were just that. But appearances are everything, personality is what matters to the voters.

Nixon won the debate against JFK for those listening on radio. Nowadays, John, everyone watches on TV.


You were Nixon.



BuBye.