Yes, we can.

[scaeagles]

Honestly, that puzzles me, ISM.

Of course the ENTIRE abortion debate is about whether or not the unborn is alive or not.

War is sometimes a necessary evil. You may regard the Iraq war as an intolerant one, which would be an issue for discussion, but while all war is unfortunate, not all is unnecessary (on one side at least).

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Honestly, that puzzles me, scaeagles.

Of course the ENTIRE war debate is about whether or not the enemy is worthy of killing or not.

Abortion is sometimes a necessary evil. While all abortions are unfortunate, not all are unnecessary.

[mousepod]

scaeagles, to clarify my feeling about the Republican party being pro-war. In my lifetime, America has been involved in:

- Vietnam (while this was a JFK/LBJ concoction, my earliest memory of political awareness was Nixon and Cambodia).
- Grenada - Ronald Reagan
- Panama - George H. W. Bush
- Afghanistan - George W. Bush
- Iraq - George W Bush

Now, I know that you could point to Clinton's involvement in Bosnia, but I honestly see that as a NATO-led intervention that actually came almost too late.

I'm not saying that my feelings are 100% facts, it's just that I see Republicans as Hawks, and it doesn't sit right with me.

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Of course the ENTIRE abortion debate is about whether or not the unborn is alive or not.

I disagree. If you posed the question of what an embryo or fetus is as "animal, vegetable or mineral," you would have to answer "animal." Having answered that question, you have to answer the moral question of what dominion you have over that animal and under what circumstances it is necessary, reasonable or simply permissible to end its life.

[Betty]

Is it a seperate animal though or part of it's host until it can survive outside of it's host?

I'm not "pro abortion" but I'm certainly for politicians staying the heck out of my uterus... although up to a point I would draw the line and say - it's too f-ing late now.

[BarTopDancer]

Pro-choice does not equal pro abortion. Pro life does equal anti-abortion.

Pro-choice means you are for choice. If you feel an abortion is the best choice in your specific situation then have one. If you don't want to have an abortion, don't have one.

[Morrigoon]

Betty: that's kind of what I use as a guideline. Obviously it's very difficult to define a line between when it's a part of the mother's body that she gets to have dominion over and when it must be considered an individual being that gets to impose itself on the mother a little longer.

A fertilized egg cannot survive out of the womb. A nearly full-term baby can. Where the line falls in the middle, tough to say. So I tend to think that when the baby could theoretically be delivered that day and survive, then it's too late to abort. That's somewhere around the 5.5-6 month mark, I believe. I think that's more than enough time to decide whether or not you're keeping it.

[innerSpaceman]

Yes, a tough decision. One most women don't want The State to make for them.


Obama nailed it on that one, and McCain played to his base ... which his running mate has already locked up, so I don't see the strategic point for him in alienating all the undecided white woman who are his only possible salvation at this point.

[Moonliner]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

Pro life does equal anti-abortion.

I don't think I agree with that statement. I see myself as Pro-Life and Pro-choice.

Personally, I am Pro-Life. Abortion sucks, don't have one. There are almost always better options for the child.

Policy wise, I'm rabid Pro-Choice. I don't like abortion (I mean come on, who does?), but I really don't like the government interfering with our lives to that level. So if you want to do the wrong thing it sucks but it's a personal choice.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by mousepod

scaeagles, to clarify my feeling about the Republican party being pro-war. In my lifetime, America has been involved in:

...

I'm not saying that my feelings are 100% facts, it's just that I see Republicans as Hawks, and it doesn't sit right with me.

And more to the point of intolerance, as I was bemoaning before, it's a party that is built on a base that believes "good family man" is the antonym to "Arab". THAT'S intolerance, and that's the sentiment that has lead us into war and I fear would continue to lead us into war under McCain out of fear and ignorance.