RIP in 2009 - Page 27

Cadaverous Pallor · 06-26-2009, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gn2Dlnd

Wow. There were only 3 posts commenting on Farrah Fawcett's death, before being utterly eclipsed by 12 pages, so far, commenting on Michael Jackson's.

FF was before my time...

cirquelover · 06-26-2009, 01:04 PM

I loved Farrah as a girl, my brother even had the infamous poster. I watched Charlie's angels but prefered Jacqueline Smith as my fav angel, probably because I thought I looked more like her. I did not like it when Cheryl Ladd took Farrah's place, then I missed her on the show.

For me Michael Jackson will always be that sweet faced little boy who could sing like an angel with the Jackson 5. I also remember the solo song he did after that about his beloved pet dying, my only dog had just died so I related to it.

I'm just saddened that a lot of my 70's icons seem to be dying off. It makes me feel very old indeed!

Strangler Lewis · 06-26-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

I don't know if anyone has read about Lewis Carroll but it was a very similar case. A man who liked being a child rather than an adult and had not-very-appropriate relationships with children. In both cases I believe that they did not actually touch the kids.

"I love children, I'd never hurt one" is a common enough refrain among child abusers. As to Lewis Carroll, who knows? We err on both sides, probably, being unwilling to assume the worst about nice respectable people and all too willing to assume the worst about mild eccentrics.

As to not wanting to let go of childhood, I think we all have our ways of doing that to some extent or another. But if you're going to talk like a toddler, walk up and down the street with a pony and invite little kids to come in your backyard and bury you in the sand, you can't blame people for what they think of you.

Moonliner · 06-26-2009, 02:12 PM

Interesting...

There is already talk of setting up Neverland Ranch for tours much like Graceland.

What do you think? Would you go?

Chernabog · 06-26-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disneyphile

I think CP makes a good point. Yes, he was a troubled man, mostly by product of his environment. But, to hear people flat out call him a pedophile, freak, etc. based on media hype is just crass and ignorant.

I would like to point out, as others have done, that OJ was convicted in the civil trial, but not the criminal trial. There was only a criminal trial for MJ, which has an elevated burden of proof. Would your opinion have changed if he was convicted in a civil suit?

In his later years (i.e. the last 15ish), he was seriously mentally disturbed and creepy as all getout. When I said that many people (me included) would most remember him as such isn't all that surprising -- as Morrigoon pointed out, we lived through it. There were tons of mentally disturbed people that we revere today as creative geniuses, but we didn't have to live through their particular insanity. If you lived in the same city as crazy alcoholic/drug addicted Edgar Allan Poe, I'd venture to guess that the crazy alcoholic/drug addict behaviour that you observed would overshadow the genius that later generations have viewed him as.

So I think that yes, the next generation will mostly "remember" MJ as an innovative musical genius. But not by the people that through half their lives, MJ was a crazy freakin mofo.

That's just my 2 cents about the matter, but my opinion is not always "correct" either

CoasterMatt · 06-26-2009, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonliner

Interesting...

There is already talk of setting up Neverland Ranch for tours much like Graceland.

What do you think? Would you go?

Already been. Don't think I'd go back.

Snowflake · 06-26-2009, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoasterMatt

Already been. Don't think I'd go back.

No coaster, right?

Ghoulish Delight · 06-26-2009, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chernabog

I would like to point out, as others have done, that OJ was convicted in the civil trial, but not the criminal trial. There was only a criminal trial for MJ, which has an elevated burden of proof. Would your opinion have changed if he was convicted in a civil suit?

Especially considering that the $22 million payoff in 1994 was all but a civil suit conviction. One that meant the family would not testify in the criminal trial that was going on and had to be scrapped for lack of evidence (i.e., the family not testifying). The only criminal trial that went to jury was in 2005, well after the initial accusations, accusations that, were they baseless, probably wouldn't have required $22 million go make go away.

Strangler Lewis · 06-26-2009, 03:17 PM

Many thought it was unfair that OJ had to endure the civil trial after being acquitted in the criminal trial. However, double jeopardy doesn't work that way.

Had there never been a civil trial, I'm sure we all still have had our opinions based on what we heard at the trial and in the news about OJ's guilt. All an acquittal really means for sure is that an accused doesn't have to go to prison, he can still vote, own a firearm, and be considered for positions for which a felony conviction might be a bar. However, no prospective employer would have to ignore what they heard at the trial. And no prospective social acquaintance would have to ignore it either.

lashbear · 06-26-2009, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strangler Lewis

But if you're going to talk like a toddler, walk up and down the street with a pony and invite little kids to come in your backyard and bury you in the sand, you can't blame people for what they think of you.

So.. I should stop doing it ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonliner

Interesting...

There is already talk of setting up Neverland Ranch for tours much like Graceland.

What do you think? Would you go?

They'd have to install FastPass for sure !! those flat rides have low capacity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chernabog

So I think that yes, the next generation will mostly "remember" MJ as an innovative musical genius. But not by the people that through half their lives, MJ was a crazy freakin mofo.

Hey, speak for yourself - I'm an old bugger and lived through it all too, remember?

and just wondering (no, really) why do people have to think of him as only one OR the other, can't you remember him as a crazy person who was ALSO an innovative musical genius? (and I don't think he ever FO'd his MO, so that ephitet doesn't apply, either.)

06-26-2009, 01:04 PM	#262
cirquelover Cruising around in my automobile... Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,617	I loved Farrah as a girl, my brother even had the infamous poster. I watched Charlie's angels but prefered Jacqueline Smith as my fav angel, probably because I thought I looked more like her. I did not like it when Cheryl Ladd took Farrah's place, then I missed her on the show. For me Michael Jackson will always be that sweet faced little boy who could sing like an angel with the Jackson 5. I also remember the solo song he did after that about his beloved pet dying, my only dog had just died so I related to it. I'm just saddened that a lot of my 70's icons seem to be dying off. It makes me feel very old indeed!
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06-26-2009, 02:12 PM	#264
Moonliner 8/30/14 - Disneyland -10k or Bust. Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 9,022	Interesting... There is already talk of setting up Neverland Ranch for tours much like Graceland. What do you think? Would you go? __________________ - Taking it one step at a time.
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06-26-2009, 03:17 PM	#269
Strangler Lewis Doing The Job Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: In a state Posts: 3,956	Many thought it was unfair that OJ had to endure the civil trial after being acquitted in the criminal trial. However, double jeopardy doesn't work that way. Had there never been a civil trial, I'm sure we all still have had our opinions based on what we heard at the trial and in the news about OJ's guilt. All an acquittal really means for sure is that an accused doesn't have to go to prison, he can still vote, own a firearm, and be considered for positions for which a felony conviction might be a bar. However, no prospective employer would have to ignore what they heard at the trial. And no prospective social acquaintance would have to ignore it either. __________________ Live now-pay later. Diner's Club!
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