RIP in 2009 - Page 28

innerSpaceman · 06-26-2009, 05:28 PM

Oh, I definitely think of him as a crazy musical talent. He's not any sort of "genius" in my book, but maybe that's because I was meh about his style of music, for the most part.

Being incredibly popular does not make him a "genius." I suppose that criteria would make James Cameron a genius filmmaker for directing the world's most popular film. Doesn't wash.

So an incredibly talented, bizarrely eccentric, mentally disturbed, likely pedophiliac person is how I will remember him.

Chernabog · 06-26-2009, 06:32 PM

Yes, lashbear it is a "both/and" rather than an "either/or". I'm just not going to remember him as the person he was during the first 15 years of my life and conveniently dismiss who he was during the past 16.

Tref · 06-27-2009, 12:30 AM

Not a lot of love in the room for MJ. No doubt the man had his demons, perhaps more then any one person deserved. We can debate if Jackson was a genius or not but there should be no argument that he was immensely talented and creative. His stamp will be on popular culture for as long as there is popular culture (and stamps). Michael Jackson is Elvis. Michael Jackson is The Beatles. Michael Jackson is the 1980s. His influence on dance is incalculable. Just watch an episode of So You Think You Can Dance and tell me if I am wrong. If Michael had done nothing but this video, I'd say he was worthy of inclusion on any list of greats. I do not have a single MJ song on my itunes, but that is a mistake I will correct. I'll miss the guy. I really will.

Kevy Baby · 06-27-2009, 08:37 AM

For anyone interested, VH1 is playing MJ videos all weekend

Not Afraid · 06-27-2009, 11:09 AM

I honestly am more saddened by Fawcett's passing than MJ's.

JWBear · 06-27-2009, 11:43 AM

I'm more saddened by what's still happening in Iran.

Alex · 06-27-2009, 11:51 AM

Dude, let's focus on the important things. Celebrities are dying left and right! If this keeps up we'll soon be all out.

Kevy Baby · 06-27-2009, 12:19 PM

Now that I have the time to do so, I will post my thoughts on MJ

Creatively, he was brilliant. Some of his songs and musical messages are actually very deep and touching emotionally. Yes, you can find lyrics and messages otherwise, but much of his music was transformative. And as we have been watching his videos this morning, I am reminded of what a great dancer he was.

But for many, all of that is superseded by his personal life.

He was eccentric. And there are allegations and what appears to be damning circumstantial evidence that he had inappropriate contact with children. I've had my doubts over the years and have often thought there were just too many allegations for there not to be a kernel of truth to the stories.

But in thinking about his life and talking about it with others, there are a lot of factors to look at. For starters, there have been a lot of evidence and stories of the father (Joseph) being very abusive and pushing his children way too hard.

Next, MJ became a huge star when he was just 10 years old and has been in the spotlight ever since. Yes, some people have come through this same kind of upbringing without issues, but it is not an easy way to grow up. Basically, MJ never really had a childhood. Consequently, he spent the rest of his life (or at least a big chunk of it) looking to be a child. Not consciously - just a way for the psyche to cope.

I suspect that there may very well have been incidents of what society would definitely consider inappropriate. However, I don't believe that there was sexual contact. I believe it was just a hurt boy was simply trying to find his lost childhood. I doubt there was anything more than what any children would be doing (as in: no sexual contact). Yes, it was probably inappropriate and illegal, but nothing like what has been portrayed in the media and in the minds of most.

Motorboat Cruiser · 06-27-2009, 01:38 PM

^ I pretty much agree with all of this.

innerSpaceman · 06-27-2009, 01:39 PM

Please forgive my ignorance, but did MJ write his own material?

I never cared enough to find out, but he always seemed "merely" a performer to me. Singer, great dancer. But maybe something about him not playing an instrument always gave me the impression he was of the old, old school that simply sang tunes penned by other people.

I liked a handful of his songs ... and might like a few more but for having never heard much of his non-hit stuff. Is he the writer? Some of it? Most of it? None?

06-26-2009, 05:28 PM	#271
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Oh, I definitely think of him as a crazy musical talent. He's not any sort of "genius" in my book, but maybe that's because I was meh about his style of music, for the most part. Being incredibly popular does not make him a "genius." I suppose that criteria would make James Cameron a genius filmmaker for directing the world's most popular film. Doesn't wash. So an incredibly talented, bizarrely eccentric, mentally disturbed, likely pedophiliac person is how I will remember him.
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06-26-2009, 06:32 PM	#272
Chernabog Biophage Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Moon Posts: 2,679	Yes, lashbear it is a "both/and" rather than an "either/or". I'm just not going to remember him as the person he was during the first 15 years of my life and conveniently dismiss who he was during the past 16. __________________ And they say back then our universe Was a coal black egg Until the god inside Burst out and from its shattered shell He made what became the world we know ~ Bjork (Cosmogony)
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06-27-2009, 12:30 AM	#273
Tref Not Tref Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,188	Smooth criminal Not a lot of love in the room for MJ. No doubt the man had his demons, perhaps more then any one person deserved. We can debate if Jackson was a genius or not but there should be no argument that he was immensely talented and creative. His stamp will be on popular culture for as long as there is popular culture (and stamps). Michael Jackson is Elvis. Michael Jackson is The Beatles. Michael Jackson is the 1980s. His influence on dance is incalculable. Just watch an episode of So You Think You Can Dance and tell me if I am wrong. If Michael had done nothing but this video, I'd say he was worthy of inclusion on any list of greats. I do not have a single MJ song on my itunes, but that is a mistake I will correct. I'll miss the guy. I really will. __________________ Tref3.0 Listen in aural 3-D to Pop's muzak! (New songs added semi-bi-daily) j & j Did you know that Emas eht yltcaxe is exactly the same spelled backwards?!
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06-27-2009, 08:37 AM	#274
Kevy Baby Chowder Head Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Yes Posts: 18,500	For anyone interested, VH1 is playing MJ videos all weekend __________________ The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot verify their validity. - Abraham Lincoln
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06-27-2009, 11:09 AM	#275
Not Afraid HI! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 17,108	I honestly am more saddened by Fawcett's passing than MJ's.
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06-27-2009, 11:43 AM	#276
JWBear Worn Romantic Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Long Beach California Posts: 8,435	I'm more saddened by what's still happening in Iran. __________________ Unrestrained frivolity will lead to the downfall of modern society.
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06-27-2009, 11:51 AM	#277
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	Dude, let's focus on the important things. Celebrities are dying left and right! If this keeps up we'll soon be all out.
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06-27-2009, 12:19 PM	#278
Kevy Baby Chowder Head Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Yes Posts: 18,500	Now that I have the time to do so, I will post my thoughts on MJ Creatively, he was brilliant. Some of his songs and musical messages are actually very deep and touching emotionally. Yes, you can find lyrics and messages otherwise, but much of his music was transformative. And as we have been watching his videos this morning, I am reminded of what a great dancer he was. But for many, all of that is superseded by his personal life. He was eccentric. And there are allegations and what appears to be damning circumstantial evidence that he had inappropriate contact with children. I've had my doubts over the years and have often thought there were just too many allegations for there not to be a kernel of truth to the stories. But in thinking about his life and talking about it with others, there are a lot of factors to look at. For starters, there have been a lot of evidence and stories of the father (Joseph) being very abusive and pushing his children way too hard. Next, MJ became a huge star when he was just 10 years old and has been in the spotlight ever since. Yes, some people have come through this same kind of upbringing without issues, but it is not an easy way to grow up. Basically, MJ never really had a childhood. Consequently, he spent the rest of his life (or at least a big chunk of it) looking to be a child. Not consciously - just a way for the psyche to cope. I suspect that there may very well have been incidents of what society would definitely consider inappropriate. However, I don't believe that there was sexual contact. I believe it was just a hurt boy was simply trying to find his lost childhood. I doubt there was anything more than what any children would be doing (as in: no sexual contact). Yes, it was probably inappropriate and illegal, but nothing like what has been portrayed in the media and in the minds of most. __________________ The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot verify their validity. - Abraham Lincoln
	Submit to Quotes

06-27-2009, 01:38 PM	#279
Motorboat Cruiser Cruiser of Motorboats Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: So Cal Posts: 3,665	^ I pretty much agree with all of this.
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06-27-2009, 01:39 PM	#280
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Please forgive my ignorance, but did MJ write his own material? I never cared enough to find out, but he always seemed "merely" a performer to me. Singer, great dancer. But maybe something about him not playing an instrument always gave me the impression he was of the old, old school that simply sang tunes penned by other people. I liked a handful of his songs ... and might like a few more but for having never heard much of his non-hit stuff. Is he the writer? Some of it? Most of it? None?
	Submit to Quotes