The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[Morrigoon]

Just playing devil's advocate here, because I actually agree (that carrying Nazi symbols to a debate on nat'l health care is stupid), but it's worth pointing out that the Nazis were ostensibly socialist. I can see how they'd make the connection, even though I think it's ludicrous.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Morrigoon

Just playing devil's advocate here, because I actually agree (that carrying Nazi symbols to a debate on nat'l health care is stupid), but it's worth pointing out that the Nazis were ostensibly socialist. I can see how they'd make the connection, even though I think it's ludicrous.

They may have used the word "Socialism" (Well... "sozialismus" really) in their name, but it was - if you excuse the pun - in name only. They were a right-wing, pro capitalisim party.

[Morrigoon]

Originally Posted by JWBear

They may have used the word "Socialism" (Well... "sozialismus" really) in their name, but it was - if you excuse the pun - in name only. They were a right-wing, pro capitalisim party.

Hence my use of the word "ostensibly"

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Morrigoon

Hence my use of the word "ostensibly"

Yes, but not even ostensibly in the way we're using the word today. On the classic political spectrum, National Socialism was always always came from a right-side tradition similar to fascism (and though in many ways communism and fascism look similar in practice they come from very different ideological places) and pretty much opposite from socialism/communism as practiced in Europe at the time.

It wasn't so much socialism in the sense of abolishing property rights and the equality of all but more in the sense of abolishing private property and nationalizing anything that impeded German nationalism (more "only racially German people have property rights" than "property rights are inimical to common man").

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by JWBear

They may have used the word "Socialism" (Well... "sozialismus" really) in their name, but it was - if you excuse the pun - in name only. They were a right-wing, pro capitalisim party.

I have to strongly object to that. They were about a state controlled economy. From MSN encarta -

Concretely, the “new order” involved abolishing trade unions and cooperatives, confiscating their financial and other assets, eliminating collective bargaining between workers and their employers, prohibiting strikes and lockouts, and requiring membership by law of all German workers in the state-controlled Deutsche Arbeitsfront (German Labor Front), or DAF. Wages were determined by the ministry of national economy. Government officials, called trustees of labor and appointed by the minister of national economy, handled all questions relating to wages and hours and conditions of work.

The trade associations of business owners and industrialists of the Weimar Republic were transformed into organs of state control. Membership by employers was compulsory. Supervision of these associations was vested in the ministry of national economy, which had the power to recognize trade organizations as the sole representatives of their respective branches of industry, organize new associations, dissolve or merge existing ones, and appoint and recall the leaders of all the associations. Through the exercise of these powers and also as specifically empowered by law, the ministry of economy greatly expanded existing cartels and cartelized entire industries. The banks were similarly “coordinated.” Private property rights were preserved, and previously nationalized enterprises were “reprivatized”—that is, returned to private ownership but all owners were subject to rigid state controls. By all of these and related means the Hitler regime eliminated competition.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I have to strongly object to that. They were about a state controlled economy. From MSN encarta -

That still isn't socialism. The state did not own the companies, just regulated them.

The majority of the piece you quoted had to do with eliminating unions; a capitalist's wet dream.