Lost! - Page 131

innerSpaceman · 05-12-2010, 07:20 AM

From a screenwriter's point of view, it seems to me the entire purpose of Jacob and MIB's foster mother, as a character in THIS story at THIS point in the telling, is to have someone who can reasonably spew all sorts of exposition under the guise of explaining the magic of the island to the two boys who will have to take over the job of protector.

It doesn't matter if that exposition is gobbledegook. It should be explanation at this point, and that was the perfect character for the job. For example, "I've arranged it so you two can never hurt each other" is completely unsatisfying - while "by killing your birth mother and dabbing you both with her uteral blood under a full moon at the mouth of the light cave, you are now recognized as two sides of a single life form by the mojo god of the island and will forever be prevented from ever hurting each other" is the type of thing that's required after five years of getting to this point.

A foster mother character could have spent 45 minutes of that hour-long episode educating her sons and THE AUDIENCE in all the arcane mysteries of the island they would have to know, and we've BEEN DYING TO KNOW.

edited to add:

FVUK LOST

Pirate Bill · 05-12-2010, 08:14 AM

Adding my voice to those who feel disappointed and cheated. It felt like a wasted episode. Even the answer to the origin of the Adam & Eve corpses was disappointing because it was done in such a condescending way. Just how stupid do they think the viewers are that it had to be explained in such a Romper Room way? (Is Romper Room too old? Should I say Dora the Explorer instead?)

But I'm still holding on to the hope that the last 2 episodes won't be as lame.

innerSpaceman · 05-12-2010, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

I didn't say I'm giving up on the show or that this episode makes me any more or less worried about the ending. But this episode did nothing to move the story in anything more than trivial ways.

I wish I could say the same. With two episodes to go, I feel last night's fiasco leaves the series ending almost impossible to be satisfactory. To me, at least.

How can you have the pen-penultimate episode, finally about the major Behind-It-All characters, move the story in nothing but trivial ways and STILL have the penultimate and ultimate episodes wrap things up well?

IMPOSSIBLE, says me.

Ya know, I'm used to series finales ending poorly. It's a really tough job, and I don't get too broken up about it being handled half-assedly. But this entire season was set up as a sort of finale, and I've found it by and large disappointing.

Ghoulish Delight · 05-12-2010, 10:07 AM

I'm holding out hope that an episode like this is just the result of the writers not being able to figure out how to partially reveal their full intentions in interesting ways that do not spoil the interesting ending, rather than evidence that they don't have an interesting ending. Perhaps it's too optimistic, and perhaps the fact is that they don't seem to be demonstrating the writing skills to keep things both shrouded in mystery AND interestingly thought provoking. But the show still holds plenty of potential to end up somewhere interesting. The good thing I can say about this episode is that while it didn't reveal anything remotely thought provoking, at least it didn't trash the potential for surprising and interesting answers.

ETA: Well, I might sort of disagree with myself on that last point. It did kinda collapse the uncertainty cloud on some of the more interesting possibilities. "Maybe MIB isn't the smoke monster at all, maybe there's an even more interesting explanation." Nope. "Maybe MIB isn't really trying to leave the island, that's just part of his game." Nope. "Maybe smokey is really the island's protector and Jacob is full of sh*t!" Nope. It seems like all the episode did was confirm the most mundane of possible scenarios.

innerSpaceman · 05-12-2010, 11:15 AM

If the "mundane" is true, that's ok by me. I don't like "cheat" storytelling. That's not to say I don't appreciate a red herring or five, but I frown on a story being told to blatantly suggest one thing only to have some twist for twist's sake reveal the opposite to be true after months or years of story direction.

The stuff that's really bugged me this season have been screenwriter/storytelling issues ... so I have zero faith in them wrapping it up well. If the reason for last night sucking is that they didn't want to give too much away for the last episode in the next-to-next-to-last episode, I say the writers are talentless hacks.

This is supposed to build a climax, not putter and stall towards a climax.

Ghoulish Delight · 05-12-2010, 11:27 AM

I'm not suggesting that all I want is total curveballs out of left field that completely change EVERYTHING. But neither do I want everything to turn out to be exactly what it seems at face value. Otherwise I could have turned the show off a couple seasons ago. And the things I mentioned were things that they've clearly left open-ended and ambiguous, in a "well, given the limited information we have, option A is what someone would LIKE us to believe is the case, but there's definitely the possibility that something else is going on here" sort of way, every one of those they've addressed have either turned out to actually be option A, or the most obvious of option B's.

But I still remain hopeful that it's just because there's some linchpin piece of information that can't be revealed early, and all of the other points of interest in the story will start to fall into place once it is.

LSPoorEeyorick · 05-12-2010, 11:57 AM

I'm mostly frustrated that the showrunners, much like most showrunners, continue to misunderstand why people watch TV. Sure, we want answers. But as of this point, we only have 3.5 hours left with the characters. The original characters. And the interesting additions over the last few years. The last thing I want with only 2 episodes left is the addition of new characters. Honestly, I don't give a flying pig about the brothers. I want to know what happens to Jack, Hurley, Sawyer, Desmond... and I want very much to know what happens to ALL of the main characters in the alternate universe. How could they have wasted that episode on people I don't care about, whether or not they hold the key to the island's shaft-o-light?*

(*EH, that was for you.)

Cadaverous Pallor · 05-12-2010, 01:22 PM

I enjoyed the episode for one reason. It debunked Jacob as possible Creator or Trapper of Magic or Godhead Dictator. It answered our question - "Who is Jacob?" with another question - "Who is his foster mom?". Seems to me they did this with purpose. The message I received was "No one actually runs the show, everyone is a pawn of their past, there is no beginning to anything and no blame to place." The more the mom talked about their destiny and the more we saw of the forces that moved the black and white pawns around, the more I felt it was all chance and happenstance, not fate. I find it an interesting concept for this show to stand on, an atheist concept of a magical universe. It actively makes me think differently about the entire show.

The whole series we were thinking, "What is so special about the castaways?" I now think that the answer is, "Nothing". They are just people who happened to get caught up in fate. One could argue that the island is a force with a mind of its own, but somehow in the presentation of the underground light, I began thinking of it as a natural phenomenon. Maybe it's the recent oil spill that's got me on this road, but doesn't the analogy of a very powerful resource found in the earth seem familiar? One that is invaluable and that people should probably be protected from, lest they be corrupted? It doesn't have to be self-aware to be what it is.

I know I'm in a tiny minority. GD and I hashed it out last night and there was no reconciling our views. Hell, I don't even agree with BTD on what was revealed. Perhaps I'm just dumb because I hadn't thought of it that way before, but to me, knocking Jacob off his ladder (along with Smokey and everyone else we've been worshiping all these years as the Savior) wasn't a bad way to spend an episode.

bewitched · 05-12-2010, 10:05 PM

I am more enlightened yet more confused than ever. Having said that, I found the mundane explanation of MIB's desire to leave the island (because he has always yearned to leave) to be very satisfying...and very human. Clearly the island holds his soul, and clearly he hates Jacob for having placed him in perpetual limbo. There is a thin line between love and hate and a thin line between salvation and eternal damnation.

innerSpaceman · 05-13-2010, 10:24 AM

ok, so now the final episode has been leaked and is all over the internet.

I had to watch it because I'm tired of waiting for nothing. Actually, it was better than I thought it would be. Mostly because it's tight storytelling for change. The whole episode is under 3 minutes long. Go ahead and watch. It won't spoil anything. There's nothing to spoil.

05-12-2010, 07:20 AM	#1301
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	From a screenwriter's point of view, it seems to me the entire purpose of Jacob and MIB's foster mother, as a character in THIS story at THIS point in the telling, is to have someone who can reasonably spew all sorts of exposition under the guise of explaining the magic of the island to the two boys who will have to take over the job of protector. It doesn't matter if that exposition is gobbledegook. It should be explanation at this point, and that was the perfect character for the job. For example, "I've arranged it so you two can never hurt each other" is completely unsatisfying - while "by killing your birth mother and dabbing you both with her uteral blood under a full moon at the mouth of the light cave, you are now recognized as two sides of a single life form by the mojo god of the island and will forever be prevented from ever hurting each other" is the type of thing that's required after five years of getting to this point. A foster mother character could have spent 45 minutes of that hour-long episode educating her sons and THE AUDIENCE in all the arcane mysteries of the island they would have to know, and we've BEEN DYING TO KNOW. edited to add: FVUK LOST Last edited by innerSpaceman : 05-12-2010 at 07:27 AM.
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05-12-2010, 08:14 AM	#1302
Pirate Bill Quality since 1973 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Right here Posts: 473	Adding my voice to those who feel disappointed and cheated. It felt like a wasted episode. Even the answer to the origin of the Adam & Eve corpses was disappointing because it was done in such a condescending way. Just how stupid do they think the viewers are that it had to be explained in such a Romper Room way? (Is Romper Room too old? Should I say Dora the Explorer instead?) But I'm still holding on to the hope that the last 2 episodes won't be as lame.
	Submit to Quotes

05-12-2010, 10:07 AM	#1304
Ghoulish Delight I Floop the Pig Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alternative Swankstyle Posts: 19,348	I'm holding out hope that an episode like this is just the result of the writers not being able to figure out how to partially reveal their full intentions in interesting ways that do not spoil the interesting ending, rather than evidence that they don't have an interesting ending. Perhaps it's too optimistic, and perhaps the fact is that they don't seem to be demonstrating the writing skills to keep things both shrouded in mystery AND interestingly thought provoking. But the show still holds plenty of potential to end up somewhere interesting. The good thing I can say about this episode is that while it didn't reveal anything remotely thought provoking, at least it didn't trash the potential for surprising and interesting answers. ETA: Well, I might sort of disagree with myself on that last point. It did kinda collapse the uncertainty cloud on some of the more interesting possibilities. "Maybe MIB isn't the smoke monster at all, maybe there's an even more interesting explanation." Nope. "Maybe MIB isn't really trying to leave the island, that's just part of his game." Nope. "Maybe smokey is really the island's protector and Jacob is full of sh*t!" Nope. It seems like all the episode did was confirm the most mundane of possible scenarios. __________________ 'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.' -TJ
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05-12-2010, 11:15 AM	#1305
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	If the "mundane" is true, that's ok by me. I don't like "cheat" storytelling. That's not to say I don't appreciate a red herring or five, but I frown on a story being told to blatantly suggest one thing only to have some twist for twist's sake reveal the opposite to be true after months or years of story direction. The stuff that's really bugged me this season have been screenwriter/storytelling issues ... so I have zero faith in them wrapping it up well. If the reason for last night sucking is that they didn't want to give too much away for the last episode in the next-to-next-to-last episode, I say the writers are talentless hacks. This is supposed to build a climax, not putter and stall towards a climax.
	Submit to Quotes

05-12-2010, 11:27 AM	#1306
Ghoulish Delight I Floop the Pig Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alternative Swankstyle Posts: 19,348	I'm not suggesting that all I want is total curveballs out of left field that completely change EVERYTHING. But neither do I want everything to turn out to be exactly what it seems at face value. Otherwise I could have turned the show off a couple seasons ago. And the things I mentioned were things that they've clearly left open-ended and ambiguous, in a "well, given the limited information we have, option A is what someone would LIKE us to believe is the case, but there's definitely the possibility that something else is going on here" sort of way, every one of those they've addressed have either turned out to actually be option A, or the most obvious of option B's. But I still remain hopeful that it's just because there's some linchpin piece of information that can't be revealed early, and all of the other points of interest in the story will start to fall into place once it is. __________________ 'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.' -TJ
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05-12-2010, 11:57 AM	#1307
LSPoorEeyorick scribblin' Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: in the moment Posts: 3,872	I'm mostly frustrated that the showrunners, much like most showrunners, continue to misunderstand why people watch TV. Sure, we want answers. But as of this point, we only have 3.5 hours left with the characters. The original characters. And the interesting additions over the last few years. The last thing I want with only 2 episodes left is the addition of new characters. Honestly, I don't give a flying pig about the brothers. I want to know what happens to Jack, Hurley, Sawyer, Desmond... and I want very much to know what happens to ALL of the main characters in the alternate universe. How could they have wasted that episode on people I don't care about, whether or not they hold the key to the island's shaft-o-light?* (*EH, that was for you.)
	Submit to Quotes

05-12-2010, 01:22 PM	#1308
Cadaverous Pallor ohhhh baby Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Parental Bliss Posts: 12,364	I enjoyed the episode for one reason. It debunked Jacob as possible Creator or Trapper of Magic or Godhead Dictator. It answered our question - "Who is Jacob?" with another question - "Who is his foster mom?". Seems to me they did this with purpose. The message I received was "No one actually runs the show, everyone is a pawn of their past, there is no beginning to anything and no blame to place." The more the mom talked about their destiny and the more we saw of the forces that moved the black and white pawns around, the more I felt it was all chance and happenstance, not fate. I find it an interesting concept for this show to stand on, an atheist concept of a magical universe. It actively makes me think differently about the entire show. The whole series we were thinking, "What is so special about the castaways?" I now think that the answer is, "Nothing". They are just people who happened to get caught up in fate. One could argue that the island is a force with a mind of its own, but somehow in the presentation of the underground light, I began thinking of it as a natural phenomenon. Maybe it's the recent oil spill that's got me on this road, but doesn't the analogy of a very powerful resource found in the earth seem familiar? One that is invaluable and that people should probably be protected from, lest they be corrupted? It doesn't have to be self-aware to be what it is. I know I'm in a tiny minority. GD and I hashed it out last night and there was no reconciling our views. Hell, I don't even agree with BTD on what was revealed. Perhaps I'm just dumb because I hadn't thought of it that way before, but to me, knocking Jacob off his ladder (along with Smokey and everyone else we've been worshiping all these years as the Savior) wasn't a bad way to spend an episode.
	Submit to Quotes

05-12-2010, 10:05 PM	#1309
bewitched 101% Yummy! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: I know Kung Fu. Posts: 1,413	I am more enlightened yet more confused than ever. Having said that, I found the mundane explanation of MIB's desire to leave the island (because he has always yearned to leave) to be very satisfying...and very human. Clearly the island holds his soul, and clearly he hates Jacob for having placed him in perpetual limbo. There is a thin line between love and hate and a thin line between salvation and eternal damnation. __________________ ~Whitney Wondering about the future of Ellington Woodard's punk@ss sh!t.
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05-13-2010, 10:24 AM	#1310
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	ok, so now the final episode has been leaked and is all over the internet. I had to watch it because I'm tired of waiting for nothing. Actually, it was better than I thought it would be. Mostly because it's tight storytelling for change. The whole episode is under 3 minutes long. Go ahead and watch. It won't spoil anything. There's nothing to spoil.
	Submit to Quotes