Elvis...or Michael?

[Alex]

Not that I'm necessarily disagreeing with that point of view, but I'm curious as to why it is.

Is De Niro less of an actor because he's only performing words written for him by someone else?

Conversely, would it have been better if Paul Anka has performed "She's a Lady" rather than Tom Jones or "My Way" instead of Frank Sinatra?

Again, I'm not arguing with the point (I don't have an opinion on much when it comes to music) but I'm find it interested where we draw the lines in preferring a total package versus super specialization (to go to sports is it better to have a fantastic starter good for 7 innings and a fantastic closer good for 2 (not that any pitch two any more) or one pitcher who'll always be out there for the full 9.

Then there's the question of respect versus entertainment. I may have more respect for the person who does a great job singing their own arrangements of their own songs while playing all four instruments needed. But I'll probably be better entertained if you get the best singer, the best songwriter and the best band together (well, I wouldn't, but I'm talking in hypotheticals).

[flippyshark]

The popular song format allows an individual artist to engage in a more personal form of expression than commercial cinema ever can, though not all musical performers wish to go this route. A singer/songwriter is also, in theory, likelier to be experimental, less conventional, and more engaged in the material since it came from him or her. But that's speaking in woefully broad terms. Most of my favorite musical artists write most of their own stuff, and for that reason I tend to feel, rightly or wrongly, more connected to such artists by listening to their work. If I see a great DeNiro performance, i don't come away feeling like i know him better. (it's way too late for me to elaborate or go into the numerous exceptions, though.) the theory of connecting the best writers with the best singers and the best band might yield something wonderful, of course (as it often does in theater) but it's less likely to seem personal.

[alphabassettgrrl]

I think for me the difference between actors (who don't write their own material) versus singers (who in my opinion ought to) is that I don't expect actors to do their own. I want singers to write the stuff they sing. If somebody else writes it, and I don't know it, I feel cheated and lied to.

And I really hate the tweaked and refined c*ap that populates the pop music field recently: anybody who's relatively cute and can wiggle on stage can be made popular and she can sound good with enough manipulation by the sound engineer. Britney Spears, Kelly Clarkson, and the Simpson sister are some that come to mind.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by alphabassettgrrl

I want singers to write the stuff they sing. If somebody else writes it, and I don't know it, I feel cheated and lied to.

I don't hold hard and fast to this myself. For example, Neil Young writes some great songs, but his voice makes my skin crawl.

There are a lot of great songwriters out there who cannot perform well. I would hate to miss their songwriting skills just because I can't stand their performance.

Conversely, there are performers who I greatly enjoy who don't write all of their own material. Led Zeppelin, one of the great (IMO) hard rock bands did a LOT of cover material from old blues musicians of the 40's 50's and 60's.

[flippyshark]

Yeah, lots of exceptions. And Zepplin's first album is especially heavy with borrowings, but that doesn't prevent it being completely amazing. On the other hand, Tom Waits would never, ever have made it if he was just singing covers. At best, he would have been a curio like Mrs. Miller. But a Tom Waits song, however brilliant, loses something when it's sung by Scarlett Johansen. Waits sounds like he's lived his boozy, hardscrabble poetry, Scarlett sounds like a schoolgirl with a crush.

[mousepod]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

Led Zeppelin, one of the great (IMO) hard rock bands did a LOT of cover material from old blues musicians of the 40's 50's and 60's.

And they eventually even admitted it!

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by flippyshark

YOn the other hand, Tom Waits would never, ever have made it if he was just singing covers. At best, he would have been a curio like Mrs. Miller. But a Tom Waits song, however brilliant, loses something when it's sung by Scarlett Johansen. Waits sounds like he's lived his boozy, hardscrabble poetry, Scarlett sounds like a schoolgirl with a crush.

Oh, there are certainly a LOT of examples of good songs gone bad when in the wrong hands. I was just making the argument that not all songwriters should sing and not all singers should write their own material.

And while I certainly don't listen to the current crop of bubblegum synthetic pop performers, this is hardly a new phenomenon. Promoters having been making stars of no-talent people who looked good on stage for a very long time. There just happens to be more tools available to make people sound better.

[innerSpaceman]

Alex, it's just that I'm going to hold in higher regard artists who create their own work, instead of "simply" performing it.

George Lucas gets higher marks for writing Star Wars and directing it than, say, Steven Spielberg gets for directing Raiders of the Lost Ark, but not having anything to do with its creation.

I dig me some Sinatra and don't blame him for not writing the great songs he brought to life, but I admire more the work of John Lennon who created his own stuff from scratch.

DiNiro would not be a better actor in a piece he wrote himself, but I would admire him more as a creative talent were that the case.

[alphabassettgrrl]

It's true that not all songwriters can perform their music (Leonad Cohen comes to mind), I'm with ISM in holding singer/songwriters in higher regard. I guess there's some mental split going on there; I like the writing but hate covers. Mostly.

Consistancy has never been my strong point, though, so the two points live in my head in relative harmony.

[flippyshark]

Originally Posted by alphabassettgrrl

It's true that not all songwriters can perform their music (Leonad Cohen comes to mind)

I deg to biffer