Societal norms, the Moral Majority and a rant that feels so good

[wendybeth]

Perhaps the reason why we see so few examples of correct judging is that the only correct way to do so is to refrain from doing so.


Did that make any sense? Lol- the cold meds are kicking in!

[Alex]

To refrain from judging is to have a life with no boundaries.

Is it wrong to stop hanging out with Bob because he's cheating on his wife? That's judgement. Is it wrong to not let your son spend the night at Greg's house, because Greg sells pot at school? That's judgement.

The only right way, in my opinion, to judge private behavior in others is through personal behavior of your own. There are two ways to judge public behavior in others: either you behave as you would with private behavior or society collectively decide on civil punishment (as we do with murder, rape, burglary, etc.). My personal libertarian view is that we've expanded societal civil punishment beyond its useful boundaries not just in the public sphere but into the private sphere where it doesn't belong at all.

But I have a strong moral ethic (just not a standard one) and I am constantly judging others by it and choose not to associate with those who fall too far from it. To not judge is to say that there is no such thing as right and wrong. I just say that not everything is a matter of right and wrong.

I don't know what the marital structure is in the OP, so I have no idea whether I think it falls into the category of something I would judge. But probably not.

[wendybeth]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

To refrain from judging is to have a life with no boundaries.

Is it wrong to stop hanging out with Bob because he's cheating on his wife? That's judgement. Is it wrong to not let your son spend the night at Greg's house, because Greg sells pot at school? That's judgement.

The only right way, in my opinion, to judge private behavior in others is through personal behavior of your own. There are two ways to judge public behavior in others: either you behave as you would with private behavior or society collectively decide on civil punishment (as we do with murder, rape, burglary, etc.). My personal libertarian view is that we've expanded societal civil punishment beyond its useful boundaries not just in the public sphere but into the private sphere where it doesn't belong at all.

But I have a strong moral ethic (just not a standard one) and I am constantly judging others by it and choose not to associate with those who fall too far from it. To not judge is to say that there is no such thing as right and wrong. I just say that not everything is a matter of right and wrong.

I don't know what the marital structure is in the OP, so I have no idea whether I think it falls into the category of something I would judge. But probably not.

You're right- perhaps I should have said "refrain from articulating certain types of judgements", which is something I do all the time. I can't help but make judgements, but I can keep quiet about them if I think it is crass, rude, impolite, etc, to pronounce them. I won't let Tori listen to Britteny Spears, as I consider her an ignorant skank, but I told Tori it's because she is too young to hear her music. Same thing when I deem someone stupid- I try to give them the benefit of the doubt, and when I am proved right I simply maneuver away from them so I don't have to be irritated all the time- I don't tell them that I think they are stupid, though.

[Capt Jack]

Originally Posted by wendybeth

Perhaps the reason why we see so few examples of correct judging is that the only correct way to do so is to refrain from doing so.


Did that make any sense?

yup. while Im not terribly religious, there is one quote Ive learned to live by

"Judge not, lest ye be judged"

Most who do judge others with abandon are loathe to have the mirror held up to them as they're afraid of what they'll see. Its just sooo much easier to cast judgement on someone else than to look at ones self objectively and critique self first, others second. A great many people I think simply cant. Others wont.

still others have no clue what Im talking about.
I think Im in that last group.

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by Capt Jack

"Judge not, lest ye be judged"

Most who do judge others with abandon are loathe to have the mirror held up to them as they're afraid of what they'll see. Its just sooo much easier to cast judgement on someone else than to look at ones self objectively and critique self first, others second. A great many people I think simply cant. Others wont.

Actually, for the most part, I usually am harshest on those how are going in the same bad route I traveled once. I've looked in the mirror, was horrified of what I saw and changed my ways. It hurts to see others I care about taking the same distructive path. And, sometimes, I simply don't want to be a witness to something I can't do anything about.

As for as other people judging me, once in a while they are spot-on and I thank them for pointing those things out. Other times, eh, they're just delusional.

[SacTown Chronic]

Alex nailed it with his comment about society judging people's private lives instead of their public lives. By all means judge me by my contribution, or lack thereof, to society. But stay the hell out of my bedroom (unless you've been invited).

My anger stemmed from Crystal's pain -- I'm simple, and overly protective, that way. She's hurt because a so-called friend decided to focus on the one detail that is none of her business while ignoring all the wonderful things that make Crystal, well, Crystal. And the friend telling Crystal that our children will no longer be socializing with her children because of Crystal's sexual orientation was the cherry on a very bitter sundae.

But, my swanky friends, venting here was just what the doctor ordered, Praise Allah. My anger has been replaced with sadness. And the sadness is starting to fade. As Kevin said, mayhap this person is not the kind of friend Crystal needs.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by SacTown Chronic

But, my swanky friends, venting here was just what the doctor ordered, Praise Allah.

Sac, I've been meaning to tell you that Islam is not the way......

[SacTown Chronic]

Mohammed The Prophet told me you'd say that, scaeagles.

[MickeyLumbo]

Originally Posted by SacTown Chronic

But stay the hell out of my bedroom (unless you've been invited).

RSVP is in the mail.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

I usually am harshest on those how are going in the same bad route I traveled once.

Yep, woe be those who have the misfortune to simply err on the same side that I once erred, and I will judge them with more harshness than I will other errs that be not mine.

This is one prime example of why judgmentalism is BAD. How often are we really judging ourselves and not the purported external objects of our judgment? I don't happen to agree with what Alex says about the necessity of judgment. Perhaps he means simply the necessity of analysis and determination. There's a fine line between such opinion-forming/decision-making and judgmentalism.

I'm not particularly good at staying on the better side of that line, but I wish I were (and so, haha, I will judge you to be pure evil if you happen to also err on the judgy side of the line!).