Michael Moore's "Sicko" - Page 6

Scrooge McSam · 06-26-2007, 04:27 PM

As we discuss this, can we keep in mind that involving the government in improving our health care system does not automatically mean we have to give it to them to run?

That is all.

Tref · 07-10-2007, 02:17 AM

Holy crap! Michael Moore Rips Wolf Blitzer on CNN: "Why Don't You Tell the American People the Truth"

To see complete clip, click here

To see only moore's reaction to the film that preceded
interview, click here

scaeagles · 07-10-2007, 05:16 AM

Why is the news story that preceded Moore's reaction so horrid? Why should that provoke such a reaction of anger?

I'm not trying to ask rhetorical questions, I'm serious.

I've never quite understood the angry reaction to debate, whether that be on Iraq, health care, gun control, or global warming. For example (and I haven't seen the movie), apparently Moore cites the WHO ranking of the US as 37th in health care. He praises Cuba's system. Cuba is ranked 39th on the same list. What's the problem in pointing that out? It's as if he doesn't want to engage in debate, he wants his position accepted without question.

mousepod · 07-10-2007, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

...apparently Moore cites the WHO ranking of the US as 37th in health care. He praises Cuba's system. Cuba is ranked 39th on the same list. What's the problem in pointing that out? It's as if he doesn't want to engage in debate, he wants his position accepted without question.

If I remember correctly, Moore shows the list in the movie. I'm fairly certain it shows Cuba ranked below the US.

Alex · 07-10-2007, 07:26 AM

And, not that I support the Cuban style of just about anything, but criticizing Cuba for being 39th is kind of like scoffing at the talking dog because it can only say five words because your teenaged son can say six.

Considering all the disadvantages it operates under, Cuba being 39th is quite an accomplishment where the United States being 37th is somewhat embarrassing.

JWBear · 07-10-2007, 10:04 AM

In case anyone is curious, here is the complete list oh WHO's rankings:

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland
51 Dominican Republic
52 Tunisia
53 Jamaica
54 Venezuela
55 Albania
56 Seychelles
57 Paraguay
58 South Korea
59 Senegal
60 Philippines
61 Mexico
62 Slovakia
63 Egypt
64 Kazakhstan
65 Uruguay
66 Hungary
67 Trinidad and Tobago
68 Saint Lucia
69 Belize
70 Turkey
71 Nicaragua
72 Belarus
73 Lithuania
74 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
75 Argentina
76 Sri Lanka
77 Estonia
78 Guatemala
79 Ukraine
80 Solomon Islands
81 Algeria
82 Palau
83 Jordan
84 Mauritius
85 Grenada
86 Antigua and Barbuda
87 Libya
88 Bangladesh
89 Macedonia
90 Bosnia-Herzegovina
91 Lebanon
92 Indonesia
93 Iran
94 Bahamas
95 Panama
96 Fiji
97 Benin
98 Nauru
99 Romania
100 Saint Kitts and Nevis
101 Moldova
102 Bulgaria
103 Iraq
104 Armenia
105 Latvia
106 Yugoslavia
107 Cook Islands
108 Syria
109 Azerbaijan
110 Suriname
111 Ecuador
112 India
113 Cape Verde
114 Georgia
115 El Salvador
116 Tonga
117 Uzbekistan
118 Comoros
119 Samoa
120 Yemen
121 Niue
122 Pakistan
123 Micronesia
124 Bhutan
125 Brazil
126 Bolivia
127 Vanuatu
128 Guyana
129 Peru
130 Russia
131 Honduras
132 Burkina Faso
133 Sao Tome and Principe
134 Sudan
135 Ghana
136 Tuvalu
137 Ivory Coast
138 Haiti
139 Gabon
140 Kenya
141 Marshall Islands
142 Kiribati
143 Burundi
144 China
145 Mongolia
146 Gambia
147 Maldives
148 Papua New Guinea
149 Uganda
150 Nepal
151 Kyrgystan
152 Togo
153 Turkmenistan
154 Tajikistan
155 Zimbabwe
156 Tanzania
157 Djibouti
158 Eritrea
159 Madagascar
160 Vietnam
161 Guinea
162 Mauritania
163 Mali
164 Cameroon
165 Laos
166 Congo
167 North Korea
168 Namibia
169 Botswana
170 Niger
171 Equatorial Guinea
172 Rwanda
173 Afghanistan
174 Cambodia
175 South Africa
176 Guinea-Bissau
177 Swaziland
178 Chad
179 Somalia
180 Ethiopia
181 Angola
182 Zambia
183 Lesotho
184 Mozambique
185 Malawi
186 Liberia
187 Nigeria
188 Democratic Republic of the Congo
189 Central African Republic
190 Myanmar

Tref · 07-10-2007, 11:12 AM

When is the last time you watched an interview that was preceded by a short film essentially disputing everything the interviewee was about to discuss? (Short of that person being a neo-Nazi.) It was a dirty trick.

But I guess it backfired.

As so far as Cuba being 39th ... well, the news channels like to make a big deal of this, as if it would somehow prove Moore's claims wrong. How could free healthcare be so great is Cuba is 39 overall! Well, we're 37th. What that says to me is that Cuba has the same quality healthcare as we do but it is FREE.

Lord, if only our politicans were as bloodthirsty, things could change for the better.

Go get 'em Moore.

Alex · 07-10-2007, 11:17 AM

Part of the debate I see but don't care for is viewing "health care" as a standalone, societally isolated subject.

Living the fancy life in Paris would be great, but I would not want to try and live the life I now live in France. They have better health care but they have a working environment that I'd not enjoy (and that many successful Parisians apparently don't enjoy based on the number I've worked with who escape as soon as they can).

Castro's healthcare might be great, but I don't want to live in his country for many other reasons.

I still haven't seen the movie but I have seen several lengthy segments. And Michael Moore definitely raises many good points. Insurance companies dodging out of coverage they've agreed to is not a good thing and should be stopped.

But I also don't agree with his solutions. I'd quibble with some stuff but I overwhelmingly agree with this guy's view of things. It isn't just a matter of changing an isolated black box that is health care it is changing a whole social fabric and that is both more difficult to do and causes in me more trepidation than if it were possible to just unplug the current system and put in a new one.

Alex · 07-10-2007, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tref

What that says to me is that Cuba has the same quality healthcare as we do but it is FREE.

This is the phrase that drives me batty. It is not free. Nowhere in the world is there free health care. Cubans pay for their system of healthcare in many myriad ways.

And the health care is rationed just as under the American system. All that is different is who does the rationing.

Tref · 07-10-2007, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

This is the phrase that drives me batty. It is not free. Nowhere in the world is there free health care. Cubans pay for their system of healthcare in many myriad ways.

And the health care is rationed just as under the American system. All that is different is who does the rationing.

Does it drive you batty, Alex? Poor Alex.

06-26-2007, 04:27 PM	#51
Scrooge McSam What? Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,635	As we discuss this, can we keep in mind that involving the government in improving our health care system does not automatically mean we have to give it to them to run? That is all.
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07-10-2007, 02:17 AM	#52
Tref Not Tref Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,188	Moore 1 Blitzer 0 Holy crap! Michael Moore Rips Wolf Blitzer on CNN: "Why Don't You Tell the American People the Truth" To see complete clip, click here To see only moore's reaction to the film that preceded interview, click here __________________ Tref3.0 Listen in aural 3-D to Pop's muzak! (New songs added semi-bi-daily) j & j Did you know that Emas eht yltcaxe is exactly the same spelled backwards?!
	Submit to Quotes

07-10-2007, 05:16 AM	#53
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	Why is the news story that preceded Moore's reaction so horrid? Why should that provoke such a reaction of anger? I'm not trying to ask rhetorical questions, I'm serious. I've never quite understood the angry reaction to debate, whether that be on Iraq, health care, gun control, or global warming. For example (and I haven't seen the movie), apparently Moore cites the WHO ranking of the US as 37th in health care. He praises Cuba's system. Cuba is ranked 39th on the same list. What's the problem in pointing that out? It's as if he doesn't want to engage in debate, he wants his position accepted without question.
	Submit to Quotes

07-10-2007, 07:26 AM	#55
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	And, not that I support the Cuban style of just about anything, but criticizing Cuba for being 39th is kind of like scoffing at the talking dog because it can only say five words because your teenaged son can say six. Considering all the disadvantages it operates under, Cuba being 39th is quite an accomplishment where the United States being 37th is somewhat embarrassing.
	Submit to Quotes

07-10-2007, 10:04 AM	#56
JWBear Worn Romantic Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Long Beach California Posts: 8,435	In case anyone is curious, here is the complete list oh WHO's rankings: 1 France 2 Italy 3 San Marino 4 Andorra 5 Malta 6 Singapore 7 Spain 8 Oman 9 Austria 10 Japan 11 Norway 12 Portugal 13 Monaco 14 Greece 15 Iceland 16 Luxembourg 17 Netherlands 18 United Kingdom 19 Ireland 20 Switzerland 21 Belgium 22 Colombia 23 Sweden 24 Cyprus 25 Germany 26 Saudi Arabia 27 United Arab Emirates 28 Israel 29 Morocco 30 Canada 31 Finland 32 Australia 33 Chile 34 Denmark 35 Dominica 36 Costa Rica 37 United States of America 38 Slovenia 39 Cuba 40 Brunei 41 New Zealand 42 Bahrain 43 Croatia 44 Qatar 45 Kuwait 46 Barbados 47 Thailand 48 Czech Republic 49 Malaysia 50 Poland 51 Dominican Republic 52 Tunisia 53 Jamaica 54 Venezuela 55 Albania 56 Seychelles 57 Paraguay 58 South Korea 59 Senegal 60 Philippines 61 Mexico 62 Slovakia 63 Egypt 64 Kazakhstan 65 Uruguay 66 Hungary 67 Trinidad and Tobago 68 Saint Lucia 69 Belize 70 Turkey 71 Nicaragua 72 Belarus 73 Lithuania 74 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 75 Argentina 76 Sri Lanka 77 Estonia 78 Guatemala 79 Ukraine 80 Solomon Islands 81 Algeria 82 Palau 83 Jordan 84 Mauritius 85 Grenada 86 Antigua and Barbuda 87 Libya 88 Bangladesh 89 Macedonia 90 Bosnia-Herzegovina 91 Lebanon 92 Indonesia 93 Iran 94 Bahamas 95 Panama 96 Fiji 97 Benin 98 Nauru 99 Romania 100 Saint Kitts and Nevis 101 Moldova 102 Bulgaria 103 Iraq 104 Armenia 105 Latvia 106 Yugoslavia 107 Cook Islands 108 Syria 109 Azerbaijan 110 Suriname 111 Ecuador 112 India 113 Cape Verde 114 Georgia 115 El Salvador 116 Tonga 117 Uzbekistan 118 Comoros 119 Samoa 120 Yemen 121 Niue 122 Pakistan 123 Micronesia 124 Bhutan 125 Brazil 126 Bolivia 127 Vanuatu 128 Guyana 129 Peru 130 Russia 131 Honduras 132 Burkina Faso 133 Sao Tome and Principe 134 Sudan 135 Ghana 136 Tuvalu 137 Ivory Coast 138 Haiti 139 Gabon 140 Kenya 141 Marshall Islands 142 Kiribati 143 Burundi 144 China 145 Mongolia 146 Gambia 147 Maldives 148 Papua New Guinea 149 Uganda 150 Nepal 151 Kyrgystan 152 Togo 153 Turkmenistan 154 Tajikistan 155 Zimbabwe 156 Tanzania 157 Djibouti 158 Eritrea 159 Madagascar 160 Vietnam 161 Guinea 162 Mauritania 163 Mali 164 Cameroon 165 Laos 166 Congo 167 North Korea 168 Namibia 169 Botswana 170 Niger 171 Equatorial Guinea 172 Rwanda 173 Afghanistan 174 Cambodia 175 South Africa 176 Guinea-Bissau 177 Swaziland 178 Chad 179 Somalia 180 Ethiopia 181 Angola 182 Zambia 183 Lesotho 184 Mozambique 185 Malawi 186 Liberia 187 Nigeria 188 Democratic Republic of the Congo 189 Central African Republic 190 Myanmar __________________ Unrestrained frivolity will lead to the downfall of modern society.
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07-10-2007, 11:12 AM	#57
Tref Not Tref Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,188	When is the last time you watched an interview that was preceded by a short film essentially disputing everything the interviewee was about to discuss? (Short of that person being a neo-Nazi.) It was a dirty trick. But I guess it backfired. As so far as Cuba being 39th ... well, the news channels like to make a big deal of this, as if it would somehow prove Moore's claims wrong. How could free healthcare be so great is Cuba is 39 overall! Well, we're 37th. What that says to me is that Cuba has the same quality healthcare as we do but it is FREE. Lord, if only our politicans were as bloodthirsty, things could change for the better. Go get 'em Moore. __________________ Tref3.0 Listen in aural 3-D to Pop's muzak! (New songs added semi-bi-daily) j & j Did you know that Emas eht yltcaxe is exactly the same spelled backwards?!
	Submit to Quotes

07-10-2007, 11:17 AM	#58
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	Part of the debate I see but don't care for is viewing "health care" as a standalone, societally isolated subject. Living the fancy life in Paris would be great, but I would not want to try and live the life I now live in France. They have better health care but they have a working environment that I'd not enjoy (and that many successful Parisians apparently don't enjoy based on the number I've worked with who escape as soon as they can). Castro's healthcare might be great, but I don't want to live in his country for many other reasons. I still haven't seen the movie but I have seen several lengthy segments. And Michael Moore definitely raises many good points. Insurance companies dodging out of coverage they've agreed to is not a good thing and should be stopped. But I also don't agree with his solutions. I'd quibble with some stuff but I overwhelmingly agree with this guy's view of things. It isn't just a matter of changing an isolated black box that is health care it is changing a whole social fabric and that is both more difficult to do and causes in me more trepidation than if it were possible to just unplug the current system and put in a new one.
	Submit to Quotes