Lost!

[Ghoulish Delight]

He's been making the rounds of talk shows too. Guess he's trying to stay visible now that he's unemployed.

[BarTopDancer]

Michael Emerson is awesomely creepy.

[scaeagles]

So's the guy who plays Ethan.

I have a curiosity about something they haven't picked up yet this season....where's Widmore? Is Widmore the guy that Jacob needs to find the island?

[Ghoulish Delight]

I don't really think Jacob needs anyone to find the island. That was just part of the ruse to get Jack to the lighthouse. If anything, Jacob's attempting to stop someone from finding the island (you have to assume he knew Jack would smash the mirrors).

[JWBear]

So's the guy who plays Ethan.

William Mapother (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0544611/)

[BarTopDancer]

William Mapother (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0544611/)

He has a beautiful smile and is pretty good looking when he's not looking so Ethany.

[Ghoulish Delight]

He looks like Will Forte.

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Y'all know he's Tom Cruise's cousin, right?

[JWBear]

Yes.

[bewitched]

Just a thought...

Sawyer is candidate #15

Kate is #51 on the lighthouse wheel

Mirror images? Seems more than coincidence. And what did Jacob mean when he said to young Kate, "Be good"? Did he mean "behave", or did he mean, be "good", as opposed to say, "evil"? Are Sawyer and Kate being set up as the MIB/Jacob of the future?

[sleepyjeff]

Some things to ponder:

Way back in season 2 Sun lost her wedding ring.....she didn't find it until she stopped looking for it.

But now the law of finding something seems to be reversed.....can't find a 40 foot tall lighthouse unless you are looking for it:rolleyes:

Dogen, Illana, and Richard all seem to think the Temple is the safest place for the Losties......and they claim to be followers of Jacob......why does Jacob himself believe otherwise?

Back in Season 2 we have Mr. Friendly wearing a fake beard and all of the others supposedly acting like they are a group of tattered hillbillies....only to find out they actually live in suburbia.....now, come to find out they(at least the ones in the temple) live more like the hillbillies than the suburbanites:confused:

Continuing along with that thought are we EVER going to find out why Ben was so upset with Mr. Friendly for not wearing his disguise??? I got a feeling we are not:mad:

After watching David's concert Dogen comes up to Jack and says "It's hard to watch and be unable to help"......which leads one to think that perhaps this alternated Dogen knows more than our alternate Losties.....but the word "watch" really stuck out to me as it is the same word used by Cindy three seasons ago:



[Back on the island, Jack wakes up startled in his cage. The camera reveals about a dozen people standing outside the cage.]

JACK [frustrated]: What?!!!

CINDY [approaching]: Hey, Jack.

JACK: Do I -- do I know you? 815, you were the stewardess.

CINDY: Cindy.

JACK: What are you doing here -- with them? I thought you were taken -- you were -- you were captured.

CINDY: They're not, um -- it's not that simple.

JACK: What are they doing here, right now? What are you doing here?!!

CINDY: We're here to watch, Jack.

JACK: Watch what?

[The little girl, Emma, from the tail section approaches.]

CINDY: What is it, sweetheart?

[Emma whispers in her ear and waits with a big smile.]

CINDY: She wants to know how Ana-Lucia's doing.

JACK: Are you serious?

CINDY: What?

JACK [angry]: If you've got something to watch, Cindy, go watch it!! Go!!

[The little boy, Zach, hands his teddy bear to Emma and stares at Jack in confusion as the group of people walk away from Jack.]


I am totally LOST:)

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Dogen, Illana, and Richard all seem to think the Temple is the safest place for the Losties......and they claim to be followers of Jacob......why does Jacob himself believe otherwise?Because MiB broke the rules? (just a guess)

Continuing along with that thought are we EVER going to find out why Ben was so upset with Mr. Friendly for not wearing his disguise??? I got a feeling we are notI always though The Others did that so they'd look like other (previous) crash survivors. Had the Others approached the Losties dressed in non-tattered clothes, the Losties would certainly wonder how this was possible, start asking questions, and seek them out. When Mr. Friendly broke the illusion, Ben got pissed.

<shrug>

[Ghoulish Delight]

Dogen, Illana, and Richard all seem to think the Temple is the safest place for the Losties......and they claim to be followers of Jacob......why does Jacob himself believe otherwise?
Because, as Ben proved by admitting he'd never seen Jacob, they only THINK they know what Jacob wants. Likely possibilities are that they were actually being given instructions by MIB rather than Jacob, or that they were receiving instructions for Jacob but Jacob was not honest about his goals and that his protection of them was limited only until such time as protecting them no longer suited his needs.

[BarTopDancer]

Was it Jacob in the rocking chair inside the cabin a few years ago? Or was that smokey taking a human form? I forget :(

[sleepyjeff]

Because MiB broke the rules? (just a guess)

I always though The Others did that so they'd look like other (previous) crash survivors. Had the Others approached the Losties dressed in non-tattered clothes, the Losties would certainly wonder how this was possible, start asking questions, and seek them out. When Mr. Friendly broke the illusion, Ben got pissed.

<shrug>

Because, as Ben proved by admitting he'd never seen Jacob, they only THINK they know what Jacob wants. Likely possibilities are that they were actually being given instructions by MIB rather than Jacob, or that they were receiving instructions for Jacob but Jacob was not honest about his goals and that his protection of them was limited only until such time as protecting them no longer suited his needs.

Sounds pretty good:snap:

[sleepyjeff]

Was it Jacob in the rocking chair inside the cabin a few years ago? Or was that smokey taking a human form? I forget :(

That is the 64 million dollar question.......:confused:

[Ghoulish Delight]

I forgot the third option - they're all entirely deluded and never received instructions from anyone with neither Jacob nor the MIB not caring one whit what happened to them ever.


And of course this being Lost, and considering the slight of hand they pulled by introducing the MIB out of nowhere, maybe it'll turn out that Jack is not actually Jack, but a manifestation of some Woman in Gray who we've never been introduced to before or something.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Was it Jacob in the rocking chair inside the cabin a few years ago? Or was that smokey taking a human form? I forget :(
Unknown. The implication at the time was that the shadowy figure in the rocking chair was actually Jacob. By the time Christian and Claire showed up at the Cabin, they were strongly implicating that Jacob definitely no longer was there, but left open the question of whether the first figure we saw was Jacob, or if Jacob had ever been there.

[sleepyjeff]

It sorta fits with how everything has played out.

I think we understand now from Ilana's declaration that Jacob had not been in that cabin for a long time that it was the MiB who was occupying it when Locke and Ben first went there together. We know that Claire is on the same team as the MiB and/or Christian so it all makes sense looking back at Locke's solo visit to the cabin when he first meets Christian and Claire is sitting there.

The plan for the island to be moved may have had nothing to do with Keamy and the rest of Widmore's crew. It could have been part of the MiBs loophole to get Locke off the island, die and then have his body brought back to manipulate Ben into killing Jacob. Maybe this is why Christian scolded Locke that -HE- was supposed to move the island, not Ben. So...when we look back to that first visit to the cabin with Locke and Ben it makes perfectly good sense that the Dark Man..MiB... said to Locke "help me."

[Ghoulish Delight]

Odds are the figure that Locke saw in the rocking chair was not Smokey because at that point the cabin was surrounded by ash, which thus far has shown no other purpose than fending off Smokey (though perhaps different ash fends off different beings). Whether that means it was actually Jacob or not is unresolvable. Though, even with just a shadowy profile, he certainly didn't look anything like Jacob as we know him now.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:3x20_Jacob_portrait.jpg

[sleepyjeff]

Odds are the figure that Locke saw in the rocking chair was not Smokey because at that point the cabin was surrounded by ash, which thus far has shown no other purpose than fending off Smokey (though perhaps different ash fends off different beings). Whether that means it was actually Jacob or not is unresolvable. Though, even with just a shadowy profile, he certainly didn't look anything like Jacob as we know him now.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:3x20_Jacob_portrait.jpg

Good point.

[BarTopDancer]

And of course this being Lost, and considering the slight of hand they pulled by introducing the MIB out of nowhere, maybe it'll turn out that Jack is not actually Jack, but a manifestation of some Woman in Gray who we've never been introduced to before or something.

MIB = Smoky. So I look at it as Oh look, smoky is a security system for the island and takes human form for a double doubleyou tee efff situation. Is human form smoky blocked by the sonic alarm system?

Unknown. The implication at the time was that the shadowy figure in the rocking chair was actually Jacob. By the time Christian and Claire showed up at the Cabin, they were strongly implicating that Jacob definitely no longer was there, but left open the question of whether the first figure we saw was Jacob, or if Jacob had ever been there.

The ash circle around the cabin was broken. Maybe he was smoky in human form and since the ring was broken he escaped. We don't know when the ash ring was broken - it could have been before 815 crashed. Though that doesn't explain how Ben was able to call/control smoky in Dharmaville to kill Kermey.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Dogen, Illana, and Richard all seem to think the Temple is the safest place for the Losties......and they claim to be followers of Jacob......why does Jacob himself believe otherwise?

Oh, was just reminded of this scanning through Lostpedia. Jacob's last words after Ben stabbed him. "They're coming", and pseudoLocke seemed surprised by him saying that.

So perhaps the temple IS the safest place to protect one's self...from MIB/Smokey, but not from whomever "They" are.

[Ghoulish Delight]

MIB = Smoky. So I look at it as Oh look, smoky is a security system for the island and takes human form for a double doubleyou tee efff situation. Is human form smoky blocked by the sonic alarm system?
I'm not satisfied by that. Smokey was never presented as a personality, more as a tool. Sure smokey seemed to have some sort of intelligence, but what we saw was very very limited. To suddenly expand that into, "Oh, actually, Somkey is a form taken by a being that's essentially on par with Jacob, previously presented as the most powerful individual in the story," was to introduce a HUGE source of power and intelligence way late in the game. A bit of a cheat IMO in that it made it entirely impossible to have been making any accurate guesses about who was running the show when.


The ash circle around the cabin was broken. Maybe he was smoky in human form and since the ring was broken he escaped. We don't know when the ash ring was broken - it could have been before 815 crashed. Though that doesn't explain how Ben was able to call/control smoky in Dharmaville to kill Kermey.I was going to suggest that the ash circle was meant to keep Smokey IN, but Smokey was out and about the whole time they were on the island, and the ash circle wasn't broken when Locke and Ben visited. So that seems unlikely (or sloppily handled by the writers).

[sleepyjeff]

Oh, was just reminded of this scanning through Lostpedia. Jacob's last words after Ben stabbed him. "They're coming", and pseudoLocke seemed surprised by him saying that.

So perhaps the temple IS the safest place to protect one's self...from MIB/Smokey, but not from whomever "They" are.

Oooh...I like it:D

[scaeagles]

Perhaps that is who Jacob neeed to help find the island at the lighthouse....if he really needed to. There are theories of course that this was all about Jack, not anything to do with bringing anyone to the island.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Perhaps that is who Jacob neeed to help find the island at the lighthouse....if he really needed to. There are theories of course that this was all about Jack, not anything to do with bringing anyone to the island.
That's what I mostly figured, although when Hurley is concerned about the someone not finding the island now that the lighthouse is busted, Jacob says something to indicate that someone is still tying to find the island, but that may have just been to placate Hurley.

[mousepod]

And the number he told Hurley to turn to is 108.

Who is 108?

[Frikitiki]

the name that showed at 108 was Wallace, but no one seems to know who Wallace is.

[Ghoulish Delight]

The name that was on there (Wallace) is one that's never been mentioned in the show. 108 is the sum total of The Numbers (same as the # of seconds between Desmond's button pushings). Since the whole exercise of getting Jack and Hurely to the lighthouse was a bit of a wild goose chase just to shake Jack up, it's entirely possible that Jacob chose 108 just because he had to pick some # to get them to move the mirrors, not necessarily because "Wallace" is anyone special (or, anymore special than any of the other candidates).

[bewitched]

the name that showed at 108 was Wallace, but no one seems to know who Wallace is.


One meaning of the name Wallace is stranger or foreigner. Charles Widmore would be a foreigner. (Although technically, I guess anyone other than Jacob and/or MIB could be considered "foreigners"-- although almost all of the islanders sound American.)

[SzczerbiakManiac]

no one seems to know who Wallace is.Whomever he is, I'll be he really likes cheese.

[sleepyjeff]

108 is the sum total of The Numbers (same as the # of minutes between Desmond's button pushings).

ftfy





One meaning of the name Wallace is stranger or foreigner. Charles Widmore would be a foreigner. (Although technically, I guess anyone other than Jacob and/or MIB could be considered "foreigners"-- although almost all of the islanders sound American.)

Or it could actually be Jack......he walks among us but isn't one of us

[JWBear]

The Losties Simpsonized (http://springfieldpunx.blogspot.com/search/label/LOST)

[Ghoulish Delight]

ftfy




Heh, yeah, 108 seconds would have been a very different existence in the hatch for Desmond.

[bewitched]

Or it could actually be Jack......he walks among us but isn't one of us


I was thinking about who might be "coming" to the island. In an interview, Lindelof and Cuse said that Jacob was telling the truth, someone important is coming to the island (but didn't say when).

[sleepyjeff]

I was thinking about who might be "coming" to the island. In an interview, Lindelof and Cuse said that Jacob was telling the truth, someone important is coming to the island (but didn't say when).

It's LOST, I see no reason why Jack can't be the one coming to the Island;)

Heck, maybe 815 will crash again:eek:

However ......



Don't read this if you don't want to be spoiled.....
....You're probably right about it being Widmore.....I accidently clicked a link to a Lost Spoiler Site and read that Sawyer and Widmore were spotted filming a scene on the deck of a submarine

[BarTopDancer]

Jeff, you need to specify what you're spoiling! I thought it was for tonight Grrrr. Luckily I have a short term memory.

Tonight's episode. No spoilers since it just finished in the Pacific time, GC doesn't watch and Lash has said he doesn't care.

Holy hell Naveen Andrews can rock a tight black tanktop. I was kinda distracted by the amount of pretty that was.

I'm not really digging the black = evil. It's to easy. The ending was frelling awesomely creepy and for the first time in a very long time I was disappointed it ended there.

[MouseWife]

Mmm, yeah, black tank top was very pretty.

Okay, as I was watching, I remembered that GC was an extra? Did I miss his show?

[scaeagles]

That was an incredible episode.

So when is Claire gonna try to off Kate?

[Ghoulish Delight]

Mmm, yeah, black tank top was very pretty.

Okay, as I was watching, I remembered that GC was an extra? Did I miss his show?
I believe he daid episode 12 of the season or so. Believe me, you'll hear the sirens.

And that WAS an incredible episode. It had so much going for it. Murder, random groups of characters running through scenes out of nowhere, some good ol' smokey slaughter. Awesome awesome awesome.


So perhaps the temple IS the safest place to protect one's self...from MIB/Smokey, but not from whomever "They" are.Or not.

I was bummed to see Dogen get killed, but man was it satisfying to watch his little bitch get it.

[Stan4dSteph]

I don't like where it seems to be going.

[bewitched]

I guess we can assume Kate and Sawyer are going to team up.

[bewitched]

Wait. NotLocke more or less said he could give Nadia back to Sayid. In the sideways world, Sayid has Nadia back (in a sense). Is the sideways world also MIB's world; one in which he has given people what they want (but maybe not specifically how they thought they would get it)?

[Ghoulish Delight]

Wait. NotLocke more or less said he could give Nadia back to Sayid. In the sideways world, Sayid has Nadia back (in a sense). Is the sideways world also MIB's world; one in which he has given people what they want (but maybe not specifically how they thought they would get it)?
NotLocke also told Claire the Others had Aaron. I wouldn't take him at his word.

[bewitched]

Spoiler about what the island may be:

E online said what the island is will be revealed in episode 9, that it is a 4 letter word and it has the letter "o" in it. A commenter is guessing that the island is a door; personally I think that makes a lot of sense.

[bewitched]

NotLocke also told Claire the Others had Aaron. I wouldn't take him at his word.


Well, Kate may be considered an "other" now...and she has Aaron (more or less).

In this theory, I don't think MIB is giving out what people want in the way they want it. Kind of like King Midas' wish to be able to turn everything he touched to gold didn't work out quite the way he envisioned.

[Stan4dSteph]

Wait. NotLocke more or less said he could give Nadia back to Sayid. In the sideways world, Sayid has Nadia back (in a sense). Is the sideways world also MIB's world; one in which he has given people what they want (but maybe not specifically how they thought they would get it)?I had a similar thought last night.

[scaeagles]

It would seem that Jacob sucks at making deals with people as well if what Dogen said is accurate in the story of his son. But in the alternate world with the piano competition, his son was still alive.

[innerSpaceman]

I am probably alone in finding last night's episode totally meh. Despite all the cool action and the very pretty-in-black-tanktop Sayid, nothing really happened that we didn't know was happening.

It was basically a Seyid story that showed the mechanics of what we've been told since the season's 2nd episode would occur - i.e., he's been "claimed" and is evil and will align himself with MiB. Ok, so that's about all that happened - except we were treated to some cool alternates in the sideways world and, yeah, some cool action on the island.

But it's what? Nearing the halfway point of the final season? I want some movement in the story. I am not happy with the meandering of taking an entire episode to move the story precisely one inch.


Maybe some stuff in the sideways world moved forward. I couldn't tell. So it seemed like a placeholder episode to me. Sorry, but Yawn.




(I generally find Lost seasons to start off slow and pick up steam around the halfway point. But I expected a more steady flow of movement in the final season. There's a lot to wrap up, and still provide enough new stuff to entertain. I don't think there's too much time for dithering.)

[MouseWife]

I believe he daid episode 12 of the season or so. Believe me, you'll hear the sirens.



Thanks. I swear, I forgot. I was so thrilled when he announced it, I told the entire family. Then, time goes by...I forgot.

The show. I find it kind of creepy. LOL The looks all seem to be creepy. Angry.

I have to say, I was thrilled at what Sayid ended up doing. But, it seems to me we are having to put too many things together for ourselves about what happened on their 'arrival' back in L.A.

[RStar]

Steve! Welcome back!

There are 10 more episodes until the 2 hour series finale, and then the series is done for good. I agree with you they could move things along a bit more at this point. I'm with you, I expected it to hit floor running, and find my self a tad dissapointed.

[sleepyjeff]

I am probably alone in finding last night's episode totally meh.


No, you are not.


We now have another episode to compete with What Kate Does for Sucking.......although to be fair, last nights episode was merely a top of the line Hoover compared to that 7 A.U. wide black hole Kate Centric fiasco.

Maybe I wouldn't be quite so upset with these slow moving shows if they wouldn't stop advertising them as a -questions will be answered- episode. The only questions answered last night were posed this year.....I want old questions answered and since there are something like 30 major and another 400 minor points to be addressed I feel like they're wasting our time....I don't care about a new characters baseball story.......in fact, the very presence of these new characters rubs me the wrong way:mad:

End rant.

Regarding that weird, confused look Flocke gave Kate at the end of last nights show.......Kate isn't on the cave wall but her name does appear in the Lighthouse....could it be that she's a candidate and Flocke doesn't know?

[Ghoulish Delight]

I'm starting to think that short of everyone's favorite character stepping off the TV screen and giving the viewers oral pleasure*, almost everyone is going to end up being "very disappointed" this season. Perhaps it's the producers'/ABC's fault for tacking on the extra seasons beyond the the original 5 year plan which has built the fervor to epic proportions, but it seems like everyone's expectations are sky high, to a degree that no TV show could ever hope to match.

I expect no clear answers until the final minute of the final episode. Everything is one giant 7-season long house of cards. There's some lynchpin bit of information that's going to make everything fall into place. Until then, they're just moving the pieces around to make that moment as complex as possible. And I'm okay with that.

But then, I've never been part of the "Why won't they give us answers?!?!" chorus. Answers aren't the reason I watch the show.



* If that happens I will be very disappointed. My favorite character is Hurley

[sleepyjeff]

I'm starting to think that short of everyone's favorite character stepping off the TV screen and giving the viewers oral pleasure, almost everyone is going to end up being "very disappointed" this season.

If they break the 4th wall I will go postal;)

[innerSpaceman]

I don't really watch it for the answers either. I want it to be entertaining. And by that I don't mean action-packed. Last night was all action and zero plot movement. That's not entertaining to me. I don't care about answers, particularly - - but I want something to happen with the plot. Even if all it does is raise more questions.


And, ya know, that's just me and my interests. So far, this season is mostly snore. But that's how I feel about the first 6 episodes of practically every season of this show. If it starts to pick-up - um, right about next week - I'm all good.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I don't like where it seems to be going.It looks to me is that both sides are amassing followers for a big showdown at the end. Sounds good.

I want old questions answered and since there are something like 30 major and another 400 minor points to be addressed I feel like they're wasting our time....Hmm, something tells me that they won't get to answering all of your 430 questions. It's up to you whether you enjoy that or not.

I'm sure I've said the phrase myself in the past, but I'm officially sick of "I'm going to be very upset if LOST ends up blah blah blah". By all accounts, no matter what happens, half the watching public is going to start a massacre in the streets as soon as the series ends.

I've decided at this point that the only way to enjoy it is to be Zen about it. It is what it is.

I enjoyed last night's episode. I loved when the annoying translator guy said "he was the only thing keeping Him out!" and Sayid said "I know."

The idea of people like Sayid, Claire, and the defectors being "evil" is interesting. It's quite the statement to show that some people end up on the wrong side due to bad circumstances. Can anyone blame Claire for befriending the only comforting force she found alone in the jungle? Or Sayid for killing a person who tried to kill him?

So if the temple spring didn't bring Sayid back to life, one assumes it was MiB, but how did he do so while the temple was still protected? If he was "infected" beforehand, when did the infection happen? He had no contact with NotLocke.

I am so glad the temple part is over, simply because the comings and goings were annoying. At any point I couldn't remember who had left and who had come back and who wanted to leave but couldn't. Time for some good old running through the jungle.

Is it just me or does Miles have a lot more gray hair now?

[BarTopDancer]

The only reason I'll riot at this point is if it ends up being a dream, a snow globe or they wake up next to Bob Newheart.

I think the reason I am enjoying this season so much is because I know the ending is coming. Some episodes suck and some rock. But I have to have confidence the writers gave the show a decent ending.

I am wondering though, if it is still important that Claire be the one to raise her baby, and if so, why.

Did anyone else notice the burning cross in the carnage?

[Stan4dSteph]

I guess I am Pollyanna, but I would like for it to end on a nice note, not evil winning and everyone dead on the ground. I'm not happy about Sayid killing Dogen. He was an interesting character and now he's dead while Sayid is all evil zombie guy.

[sleepyjeff]

It looks to me is that both sides are amassing followers for a big showdown at the end. Sounds good.

It sure does......all we need now is Charlie to come back and sing a cover for Larry Underwood.....Baby can you dig your man

Hmm, something tells me that they won't get to answering all of your 430 questions. It's up to you whether you enjoy that or not.

Of course I will enjoy it.......if I didn't I wouldn't be wasting my time talking about it.

[bewitched]

I'm with BTD, as long as it's not a dream a la Dallas or a snow globe, I'm good as long as they give me resolution. I'm okay with that resolution being incomplete and, as I've said, I think in some ways it would be better if the conclusion leaves enough answers that we continue to ruminate it's true meaning.

A note on the 5 seasons becoming 6...

ABC wanted to add an extra season to Lost because of its money making prowess; the producers didn't want another season but compromised. Instead of having the last 2 seasons be 22/24 episodes (like the first 3 were) they added a sixth season but made the last 3 seasons only 14-18 episodes (the 4th was shortened because of the writer's strike). The last 3 seasons are the approximate length of 2 of the first 3 seasons (46 vs 48). So there's one more season then originally planned but no more episodes.

[innerSpaceman]

Ah, that's interesting to know.


Ok, I have a question:

I missed that much loathed Kate episode, so maybe that's where it happened - but where and how (and what was the reaction) did the Losties who were in Dharma Times before the nuke-meets-energy pocket incident that concluded Season 5 find out they were all transported forward in time 33 years to the "present"? (even though some of them had only gone back 30 years to reach Dharma Times and others had gone back 33).

Anyway, was there some moment of discovery, much less explanation for this?

[JWBear]

They kinda realized immediately when they woke up (most of them, anyway) in the whole that was created when Desmond turned the failsafe key, and the station blew up.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Ah, that's interesting to know.


Ok, I have a question:

I missed that much loathed Kate episode, so maybe that's where it happened - but where and how (and what was the reaction) did the Losties who were in Dharma Times before the nuke-meets-energy pocket incident that concluded Season 5 find out they were all transported forward in time 33 years to the "present"? (even though some of them had only gone back 30 years to reach Dharma Times and others had gone back 33).

Anyway, was there some moment of discovery, much less explanation for this?I believe it was when they found the blown Swan "hatch", proving that not only had the hatch been built, but that they had been there to blow it up. There was plenty of anger, especially Sawyer pointing a finger at Jack for Juliet's needless death (though she wasn't quite dead yet, they tried to save her and then she died and Sawyer was extra pissed.)

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Lost is kinda losing me.

I'm not digging the Island storyline these days, and isn't that the whole friggin' point? I don't love that our merry band is breaking up into factions. I realized last night that I *hate* that John Locke is dead and this Smoke Monster Locke is all that's left of him. Because he's a little lame.

I always liked that our Lost folk were trapped in between these warring parties, and I guess I was kind of hoping that our beloved characters would band together and say, "You know what, **** this! We aren't your pawns and this isn't our war. And the war is lame to begin with!" So the fact that they seem to be splitting up our beloved characters into two factions, and that we may really be in for a sort of GOOD vs EVIL battle just leaves me a bit sad and bored.

And, I know, I know. I suppose the writers/producers were generally headed in this direction and I shouldn't have assumed otherwise, but it all seem so heavy, stupidly handled. Like once upon a time they were inspired by Slaughterhouse 5 and now they're inspired by bad adventure serials, and not in a good way. (Indian Jones, for example, was a good way.)

All these little rules (the Japanese man being the only thing - for some unexplained reason - keeping out the Smoke Monster) seem so tossed in and pointless.

And I continue to be more interested (and this does shock me) in the alternate storyline. Sayid's storyline was awesome. Sayid on the Island? Evil Mirrorverse Sayid? It just make me feel embarrassed for him for some reason.

Of course I'm in for the ride. I've loved the show and I want to see how it all turns out. But the sci-fi elements of the show, which I love (parallel universes, becoming displaced in time, etc.), are now taking a serious back seat to the stuff i care less about (overly Christian good vs evil symbolism and characters, etc.). I feel like I'm reliving my Battlestar Gallactica experience right now, and that final season left me very, very soured on that entire series.

There were moments last night where I felt like I was watching The Land of the Lost. Seriously. LAND OF THE LOST! And the music is bugging the **** out of me lately. I have always loved the score for the show and now it all sounds like the Indiana Jones ride music at Disneyland. Seriously. THE INDIANA JONES RIDE! So disappointing.

Holding out hope, but not loving it at all right now.

[innerSpaceman]

I've always found the off-island stuff more interesting. I admire the writers for coming up with a different method each season of having off-island stuff (flashbacks, flash-forwards, literally off the island, sideways alternate reality).

I'm personally positive it's this dramatic gimmick that's driving the choice of story lines and not the other way around. That's alright with me. Island alone would get boring real fast, and the writers know that.

What they don't seem to know is how to wrap up the series with a tenth the talent they've exhibited in having it flow along with no obligations. D'uh. Didn't everyone but the most kool-aid swilling see this coming?


BUT - most seasons have finished way better than they started. I hope it starts improving real, REAL soon.

Because this time the Island stuff is far worse than usual, and I'm not finding the sideways universe all that interesting either.

[Ghoulish Delight]

So the fact that they seem to be splitting up our beloved characters into two factions, and that we may really be in for a sort of GOOD vs EVIL battle just leaves me a bit sad and bored.
The shows been all about splitting the losties up into factions. Beach vs. cave. Push the button vs. don't push the button. Follow Locke vs. follow Jack. It's more literal and divisive this season, but it's been a running theme through the entire series.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

The shows been all about splitting the losties up into factions. Beach vs. cave. Push the button vs. don't push the button. Follow Locke vs. follow Jack. It's more literal and divisive this season, but it's been a running theme through the entire series.

I'm aware of that. At this point I'm only referring to the group that's currently whittled down. At this point I have little to no interest watching Sayid, Sawyer, Claire, etc. following Smoke Monster Locke and the rest following whomever...Jack? I know it's been about one group vs another, but previously it all seemed very well thought out, and what motivated characters to choose one side or the other was interesting. Sawyer's reasoning? That makes sense to me. That bores me less. Evil Claire / Evil Sayid? That just seems like a tossed stupid salad. The writing just seems bad this season.

[scaeagles]

Tonight's episode sure had the feel of an episode from an earlier season. I quite enjoyed it (not that I'm not enjoying this season).

I do have a question because try as I might I can't recall....what happened to Danielle Rousseau? Do we know?

[bewitched]

Tonight's episode sure had the feel of an episode from an earlier season. I quite enjoyed it (not that I'm not enjoying this season).

I do have a question because try as I might I can't recall....what happened to Danielle Rousseau? Do we know?

She was shot by Keamy while trying to get Karl and Alex to safety at the temple. (Immediately before marching Alex back to the barracks where she was shot in front of Ben.)

[RStar]

I thought Daniel was shot by his mother? But then again, I'm so confused that I'm not sure what year it is on the Island now. Is it still 1977? How'd the non 815 survivors (including Lapidus) all get to the same time? Is UnLocke Jacob? Is Jacob Smokey? Isn't the man in black smokey? Are there two smokeys, one good one bad?

I'm so confused!

However, I had one thought. If smokey can make itself into Locke, then could it also have made itself into all of the other dead or impossible to be on the island people like Jack's dad, Locke's dad, and Claire's dad? That would explain those impossiblities!

[JWBear]

It's 2007

[bewitched]

I thought Daniel was shot by his mother? But then again, I'm so confused that I'm not sure what year it is on the Island now. Is it still 1977? How'd the non 815 survivors (including Lapidus) all get to the same time? Is UnLocke Jacob? Is Jacob Smokey? Isn't the man in black smokey? Are there two smokeys, one good one bad?

I'm so confused!

However, I had one thought. If smokey can make itself into Locke, then could it also have made itself into all of the other dead or impossible to be on the island people like Jack's dad, Locke's dad, and Claire's dad? That would explain those impossiblities!

Danielle Rousseu not Daniel Faraday (who was killed by his mom).

Lapidus arrived with the Oceanic 6 when they returned to the island on Ajira 316.

The detonation of jughead (the hydrogen bomb) or the last time jump (depending on your view of what happened at the end of last season) seems to have kicked everyone who wasn't already in their present timelines back to 2007. Presumably, Richard exists across all timelines.

Jacob is dead but Hurley can see him.

MIB=Smokey=NotLocke

Personally, I don't think MIB=Christian since Claire clearly differentiated between the two in episode 5.

According to Iliana, MIB/Smokey is now stuck as NotLocke, not sure why but I suspect it's because Jacob died.

Funny you should ask about 2 Smokeys because I was just wondering about that tonight. If Smokey was contained at the cabin, and Ben was a Jacob minion, but could call Smokey as a "security system" in times of extreme danger (like when Keamey and his men invaded), I think it's entirely possible that Jacob had the ability to turn into the same type of force as MIB.

[JWBear]

Funny you should ask about 2 Smokeys because I was just wondering about that tonight. If Smokey was contained at the cabin, and Ben was a Jacob minion, but could call Smokey as a "security system" in times of extreme danger (like when Keamey and his men invaded), I think it's entirely possible that Jacob had the ability to turn into the same type of force as MIB.

Hmmmm.... Very good. I hadn't thought that Jacob could be a smoky too. Interesting....

[Ghoulish Delight]

Loved that episode.

[bewitched]

Loved that episode.

Me too. Loved that Ben was able to find redemption for himself in both worlds.

Michael Emerson rocks.

[bewitched]

Fun Fact:

Roger Linus (Ben's dad) is played by Jon Gries who played Uncle Rico in Napoleon Dynamite.

I knew I recognized him form somewhere!

[scaeagles]

She was shot by Keamy while trying to get Karl and Alex to safety at the temple. (Immediately before marching Alex back to the barracks where she was shot in front of Ben.)

Ah yes - thanks.

[scaeagles]

Fun Fact:

Roger Linus (Ben's dad) is played by Jon Gries who played Uncle Rico in Napoleon Dynamite.

I knew I recognized him form somewhere!

He also played a guy named Broots (I think that was his name) on a show from the 90s called The Pretender. I loved that show.

[Ghoulish Delight]

He will forver be Lazlo from Real Genius.

[bewitched]

He also played a guy named Broots (I think that was his name) on a show from the 90s called The Pretender. I loved that show.

OMG, you're right!
And I agree, that was an awesome show.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Seeing Ben in a more likable light was a lot of fun. The fact that he chose "good" instead of stewardship of the island is a great curve.

They recognized that we don't know which Kwon is the candidate, or if it's both...

[Ghoulish Delight]

She said there are only 6 candidates "left". I wonder, does that include Locke? Sayid? Because if not...who are the six?

[RStar]

Thanks guys! I figured it was 2007, but then why did they not know about that temple full of people? And I read Daniel, rather than Danielle. I told you I was confused. ;)

He will forver be Lazlo from Real Genius.
Oh! That's where I know him from!!

[Cadaverous Pallor]

She said there are only 6 candidates "left". I wonder, does that include Locke? Sayid? Because if not...who are the six?The non-crossed out names from the lighthouse are Shephard, Reyes, Jarrah, Kwon, Ford, and Austen. Six if Kwon counts once, and as she said, she herself was unsure if that was one or two.

[sleepyjeff]

Loved that episode.

Yes, this episode had both the best acting and writing so far this season.....I hope this continues the rest of the way.

[sleepyjeff]

HAPPY LOST DAY!!!


Lost

[CoasterMatt]

:)

[Ghoulish Delight]

I didn't love that episode. The island bits I liked alright, but Sawyer's flash sideways story was as hackneyed as it gets. Bleh.

[scaeagles]

Disappointed as well.

What I don't seem to understand is the apparent differences in some of the lives of the characters. For example, last night....Sawyer is a detective when he rode back on Oceanic 815. Was he a detective when it crashed? Is his pre crash life in these sideways flashes different in the time lines that had him crash and that had him not crash? Was he always a detective? How is it that he didn't kill the guy this time around when he obviously had when he flew back from Australia when 815 crashed?

I'm confused.

Next week, however, looks to be sweet. But that's what previews are designed to do.

[Pirate Bill]

The fork in the timeline occurred in 1977 when the bomb went off. Not in the air. Everybody's lives took a different turn way before flight 815 didn't crash.

At least that's how I see things.

I liked the episode. I liked that he was partners with Miles in the FS. I liked that somebody gave him a nickname. I liked seeing Charlotte again. I liked the island story. In fact, I can't think of anything I didn't like.

[JWBear]

I'm still trying to figure out if Widmore is a good guy or a bad guy. Hell... I'm still trying to figure out if anyone is a good guy!

[scaeagles]

I was thinking about Widmore.....I'm thinking he's a third wheel.

We have Jacob, the presumed good guy. We have Flocke, the presumed bad guy. I think Widmore fits in differently in that he was on the island long ago, was banished, and is seeking to gain control as an outside third party.

And Pirate, you're right - the alternate time line stuff really started as a result of the bomb exploding, not crashing vs. not crashing.

[Ghoulish Delight]

What I liked most about this episode was my realization that MIB, unlike Jacob, answers questions. Someone asks him a questions, he answers. Not necessarily entirely honestly, or even if honest, in a way that says, "Okay, I'll humor your question with an answer but only because it just goes to show how little you know and how you don't even know what questions and secrets are actually important." But he answers, which just encapsulates the awesomeness of the show and the whole "answers" thing.

And I love that Sawyer basically used the same tactic when responding to Whidmore and MIB.

Charolette was freaking hot in this episode. The guy who played Faraday must be pissed that he got nose-blood coughed on him, and Sawyer got a sex scene.

[BarTopDancer]

Sawyer - shirt = awesome episode. What was the rest of the storyline? :D

[innerSpaceman]

Another disappointed customer here, too - especially after last week's boffo episode (the only one of the season).

I'm getting tired of the sideways focus on one character per episode - because it smacks of there not being a story, per se, but rather just a desire to spotlight each main character in turn as a kind of curtain call for the series. Bleh on that. Waste of time when TONS of Story should be Told at this point.

And the sideways stuff is not even very good. Last week's Ben Linus was of course the best one. It actually told a full story, and hooked in beautifully with the story on the island that week. Well done. None of the others are rising to that standard, though.

The Sayid one was also interesting ... but was a snippet of a tale instead of a story told. And I guess it's all leading up to many of the characters, if not all of them, hooking up sometime soon - - though the reveal of some other sideways character interaction at the very end of the episode is already getting tiresome.

And what is the POINT of the sideways world that obviously is NOT the world the characters inhabited in the original pre-Oceanic world. WHY is that? What's it got to do with the "real" characters on the Island? How will those two storylines affect each other and the freaking finale that we're supposed to be rushing headlong to?


With only 8 more episodes, I don't think there's any possibly satisfying way to tie this all together.

I picked the wrong season to watch week-by-week as it airs. This is torture. And not the fun kind.

[sleepyjeff]

Did anyone catch a HUGE point last night?

Charlotte works at the museum with Miles DAD!

When we saw Ben's dad alive and well last week I thought, "oh well, Newotherton isn't super close to the Swan".......but hello, Pierre Chang was at the swan.

Just what happened at the swan after Juliet slammed the bomb:confused:

[JWBear]

I think what makes the sideways timeline different is that Jacob wasn't around.

[Gn2Dlnd]

I think the bomb affected the timeline in both directions.

[RStar]

I think the bomb affected the timeline in both directions.Like burning a candle in the middle. Good point!



And what is the POINT of the sideways world that obviously is NOT the world the characters inhabited in the original pre-Oceanic world. WHY is that? What's it got to do with the "real" characters on the Island? How will those two storylines affect each other and the freaking finale that we're supposed to be rushing headlong to?There could be a reason for it that we don't yet understand. With out knowing how this is going to end, how can we assume what information is important? How do we know the sideways flashes aren't the real timeline? All will be revealed in the end (or so they say)! :rolleyes: I'm rather nervous about it. It better be good!

Sawyer - shirt = awesome episode. What was the rest of the storyline? :DAfter he is done with this show, I think his contracts for any future work will state that he will not be willing to take off his shirt, because he is so tired of it. I think he should just get a beer belly and let the hair grow in so that no one will want him to! ;)

[BarTopDancer]

After he is done with this show, I think his contracts for any future work will state that he will not be willing to take off his shirt, because he is so tired of it. I think he should just get a beer belly and let the hair grow in so that no one will want him to! ;)

Why you gotta be like that? :p

He can be another Matthew Mcconaughey and not wear one. Ever. That would be perfect.

[innerSpaceman]

I missed Pirate Bill's excellent point that the timeline diverged in 1977 when the bomb/incident happened. That's a satisfactory explanation for why the sideways world is so different from what it "was" or rather would have been.

[JWBear]

I think he should just get a beer belly and let the hair grow in so that no one will want him to! ;)

I know a lot of guys who would actually prefer him that way!

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Darlton said on the podcast that they don't want viewers to think of the two timelines as distinct and strongly hinted that they will merge at some point.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I enjoyed the "Sawyer gets laaaaid" story with no less than 2 partners plus a reference to the Kate bear cage incident. Dug Good Guy Det. Ford - nice to know he's got it in him somewhere. Conversely, also fun to see him up to his lying again. He called Kate "Freckles"! :)

Seeing Sayid all messed up was creepy.

I wish Claire was a better actress.

[Stan4dSteph]

Was fun to see Charlie's brother at the police station.

[BarTopDancer]

Was fun to see Charlie's brother at the police station.

I was hoping we'd see Charlie too, perhaps at his bottom asking his brother to take him to rehab. I am curious why his brother was in LA.

[sleepyjeff]

I missed Pirate Bill's excellent point that the timeline diverged in 1977 when the bomb/incident happened. That's a satisfactory explanation for why the sideways world is so different from what it "was" or rather would have been.

It's actually possible that the timeline diverged way back in the 1950's....since Locke, Sawyer, Juliet, Dan, Charlotte and Miles all visited the Island in that decade.....after 815 crashed.

[bewitched]

The fork in the timeline occurred in 1977 when the bomb went off. Not in the air. Everybody's lives took a different turn way before flight 815 didn't crash.


I missed Pirate Bill's excellent point that the timeline diverged in 1977 when the bomb/incident happened. That's a satisfactory explanation for why the sideways world is so different from what it "was" or rather would have been.

It's actually possible that the timeline diverged way back in the 1950's....since Locke, Sawyer, Juliet, Dan, Charlotte and Miles all visited the Island in that decade.....after 815 crashed.


I think it's impossible to say when/how/if the sideways timeline diverged from the known timeline(s). So far, we only know for sure that Ben and his father were on the island; the Losties don't seem to actually remember being on the island and may never have been (at least in their sideways life). Personally, I think it probably did diverge at some point but I'm not discarding the possibility of it being a parallel timeline (as opposed to a divergent one).

[JWBear]

I was just reading some spoilers on another board. If they are true, we get Jacob's and Smokey's back story in the penultimate episode...

[SzczerbiakManiac]

That will be very cool. I'm also looking forward to next week's Richard backstory. And not just because I think Nestor Carbonell is smokin' hot, though it is a factor. :evil:

[RStar]

I was hoping we'd see Charlie too, perhaps at his bottom asking his brother to take him to rehab. I am curious why his brother was in LA.I saw him on channel 5 news this morning, and he hinted that he will be on at some point, perhaps the last ep.

I know a lot of guys who would actually prefer him that way!
Ewww....

[SzczerbiakManiac]

A thought just occurred to me. We know it's impossible to get to the island unless one approaches at exactly the right angle. What if this is not so much to keep people out, but to keep MIB in?

[scaeagles]

Interesting thought.

[innerSpaceman]

I had an interesting thought yesterday. NOTHING HAS HAPPENED this entire season, more than half over.

Cough*Cough*Bullsh!t.





(As I've observed, other seasons seemingly meandered through nothingness for their first halves ... but this is unacceptable to me for the final season on a show like Lost that must now prove it is not the 21st century version of Twin Peaks.)

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I had an interesting thought yesterday. NOTHING HAS HAPPENED this entire season, more than half over.You're kidding, right?

[Gn2Dlnd]

Loved how we refer to Ol' Smoky as "the smoke monster," but UnLocke, when asked what happened to the people who stayed behind at the temple, called it, "the black smoke." And conveniently left out the information that it was himself. Wondering if Jacob could manifest as white smoke.

Want to know about Adam and Eve. Want to know about The Island at the Bottom of the Sea. Really want to know why Rose, in the first episode, recognized the sound of the Smoke Monster. Want to know about the healing spring inside the temple, and what was wrong with it. Want to know about the Hurleybird, the whispering in the grasses, the baby's mobile with little airplanes they found in the Dharma maternity ward, want to know about Walt and Aaron, want to know if Vincent is Jacob, want to know who or what Christian is, want to know about the whole island electromagnetic thing.

Is the MiB a Djinn? Is that why he couldn't kill Jacob? Would that explanation be beyond stupid, or does it fit in with antiquity of the Island, and the occasional references to Alice and Oz?

I really, really want to know why Rose thought she recognized the sound made by the Smoke Monster.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I really, really want to know why Rose thought she recognized the sound made by the Smoke Monster.
From Lostpedia

During the DVD audio commentary on "The 23rd Psalm (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_23rd_Psalm)", the producers talk about the moment in the pilot where Rose says the "Monster" (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_%22Monster%22) sounds familiar. They reveal that while searching for monster sounds for "Pilot, Part 1 (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Pilot,_Part_1)", they came across the sound of a New York City taxi fare printer, and decided to use the sound for the "Monster." This sound would obviously be familiar to Rose, as an inhabitant of the Bronx.

ETA: Of course, there could be a reason that they chose a sound that would be familiar to her, but it seems it doesn't sound like it's going to turn out that she had encountered the smoke monster before, just that the smoke monster incorporated something familiar to her.

[innerSpaceman]

And, no, I'm not kidding. A bunch of sideways slice-of-life stuff is not moving the plot along as far as I can tell yet. I'll give that time, but as I've posted - it seems more like giving each character their curtain call in orderly turn rather than storytelling.

On the Island - 8 episodes to reveal the names at the cave and the lighthouse? Other than that, endless waste of choosing-sides time which could have been accomplished in 20 minutes. And should have been. In fact, the whole season seems to be taking Episode I lessons.

Except for the excellent Ben Linus episode week before last, it doesn't seem like anyone posting in this thread is much more enthralled with this season than I am - so I really don't feel like my criticism is out of left field - but in any case, that's how I feel.


With the proviso, that I'm used to having things move along at a greater clip via watching the episodes one after another on DVD. Maybe it's just seeming too slow to me on a weekly basis.

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Speaking of Smokey sounds, in Recon when Sawyer discovers the Ajira plane on Hydra Island, you can hear birds chirping that sound (to me) exactly like one of the component sounds of Smokey. Watch it again, it's around the 40 minute mark, IIRC.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Yeah, I heard that. They seem to do that a lot, mix some component smokey sound in. Could be meaningful, could be just to mess with us.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

On the topic of old Smokey, it seems the images he projects and the sounds he makes derive from the personal lives/demons of those he is targeting. I've always thought this to be the more awesome thing about it, inferring that he gets his power from the environment around him. Innocuous noises could seep in there as well.



iSm, I believe there has been some back and forth as to which episodes are entertaining and which have not, but I'm not going to dig for quotes. Not everyone is hating this season, and I daresay no one is hating it as much as you are. Even if this is filled with "curtain calls" I'm enjoying them quite a bit. It's going to be a bummer when we no longer see these characters anymore!

As for "nothing happening", it seems to me the story has always moved along at the pace of the character development. The plot has never moved much quicker than the flashbacks. Come to think of it, much of my favorite parts of the show have been the flashbacks. Remember when the questions were "who are these people really?" and the flashbacks slowly leaked answers for us? How is this season any different? Learning what these people might have been is just as fascinating for me, as it reveals more and more of who they are, really.

I'll say this until I'm blue in the face - big answers are not what LOST is about. When the answers come, I bet that most people who are counting on them to make their 6 seasons worthwhile are not going to be happy. It's not the destination, it's the journey...

[Frikitiki]

I heard that too! Could Widmore have brought a smokey with him?

[sleepyjeff]

... but this is unacceptable to me for the final season on a show like Lost that must now prove it is not the 21st century version of Twin Peaks.

But Twin Peaks was an entirely different show....I mean, yeah, some of the names are the same........Cooper, Desmond, Roger, Ben, Hurley, James, Jacob(y), an eye-patched character and a Black "Lodge" instead of a Black "Rock", characters bodies being occupied by evil spirits etc.

Where Twin Peaks went wrong is that it did answer some of the biggest questions before the final season......Lost, mad as it makes me sometimes, hasn't made that mistake:)

Of course there is one big scary similarity between the two shows...scarier then even the similar character names.............Bob Iger:eek:

[sleepyjeff]

ETA: Of course, there could be a reason that they chose a sound that would be familiar to her, but it seems it doesn't sound like it's going to turn out that she had encountered the smoke monster before, just that the smoke monster incorporated something familiar to her.



REDSHIRT: It didn't sound like an animal, not exactly.

ROSE: That sound that it made, I keep thinking that there was something really familiar about it.

REDSHIRT #2: Really? Where are you from?

ROSE: The Bronx.

REDSHIRT: Might be monkeys. It's monkeys.

REDSHIRT #2: Technically, you know, we don't even know if we're on...


The problem I have with that theory is that it has made this same sound on several occasions when Rose was no where around...most recently last week right before FLocke approached Ben. We also heard it make those Taxi-cab like sounds when it was spying on Sawyer.........so only we the audience heard it, none of the Islanders.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Well, I was figuring more that smokey collected sounds and that's the noise he makes. Not so much that he produces specific sounds for different people, just that by his nature the sound he makes might incorporate aspects of all the lives of people (or a subset of people) who have been brought to the island.

[innerSpaceman]

I think I'm having more problems with the "flashback"-type thingies in this season because I just can't buy that the sideways characters are the same people as the Losties. Maybe it's just because I don't like what's going on in most of those stories. I liked the Ben story best and thought of him as Ben ... but all the others seem like phantoms to me. I don't know how better to explain it than that.


But it comes down to pretty much what CP said. The flashback-forwards-time-different things off the island have always been the cool parts to me ... but because they were cool. I'm not liking most of them so far this season. Ben's great. Sayid's ok. The rest - meh.

[sleepyjeff]

Well, I was figuring more that smokey collected sounds and that's the noise he makes. Not so much that he produces specific sounds for different people, just that by his nature the sound he makes might incorporate aspects of all the lives of people (or a subset of people) who have been brought to the island.

I see, that makes sense.

[bewitched]

As for "nothing happening", it seems to me the story has always moved along at the pace of the character development. The plot has never moved much quicker than the flashbacks.

I agree. I have to say I would be disappointed if, for the sake of the endgame, that the show all of a sudden started throwing things at us left and right. I maintain faith that, as for most of the last 5 seasons, the producers know what they are about and have planned accordingly. Answers will be forthcoming. Maybe not all of the answers I want, but I am confident that come May 23rd, I will walk away satisfied.

I would add that satisfaction comes on many levels. As I've said many times, for me, the best outcome would be one where May 24th leaves me plenty to continue to talk about and ruminate on.

[sleepyjeff]

HAPPY LOST DAY!!!



Tonight should be a good night for answers......but I bet we'll probably have more questions too:)

[bewitched]

Tonight we supposedly learn what the island is.

[SzczerbiakManiac]

I thought tonight was Richard's backstory...?

[JWBear]

It is...

[JWBear]

Oh... Has anyone else seen this?

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100219000451/lostpedia/images/d/d7/S6cast.jpg

[bewitched]

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q63/wwithers/last-supper2.jpg

was from the January and was released concurrently with this image:

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q63/wwithers/last-supper1.jpg

And was then followed, a week later by this one:

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q63/wwithers/last-supper3_0.jpg

[Pirate Bill]

There's 1 too many people in those pictures.

[bewitched]

There's 1 too many people in those pictures.

Indeed. Perhaps it's because they aren't all "apostles".

[Ghoulish Delight]

Or, assuming they were intending any meaning beyond the superficial allusion, you could take into account the "which Kwon is it?" confusion and say that Sun and Jin count as only 1.

[bewitched]

I think the most interesting interaction is between Jack and Locke.

In #1, Locke looks very pleased with himself and Jack has a look of "what am I going to do with you?" about him.

In #3, Locke looks like a kid who's just been sent to his room while Jack looks like he's not pleased but has meted out a fair punishment.

Also, in #3 note the lily and skull in front of Hurley, Miles, Ben and Frank. Additionally, Hurley is looking "heavenward". Also, it appears as though they are the only ones not interacting with everyone else; does that mean Ben, Hurley, Frank and Miles will die? I really hope Miles and (especially) Hurley make it the end.

[JWBear]

Whoa....

The island is a cork?! WTF?

On another note... Scruffy Nestor Carbonell is smokin!

[BarTopDancer]

Oh Lost. Much like my Ducks this season I fear you have given me a glimmer of awesomeness you won't be able to live up to. Tonight was epic, broke my heart and gave me a dose of WTF is going on.

ETA more thoughts:

Richard is the most heartbreaking character on this show. I can't recall ever crying before. Maybe when Kermey shot Alex but I think that was just a audible gasp.

We learned what happened to the rest of the statue, who the people on the Black Rock were, how it got on the island, why Richard never ages and how long he's been on the island. I'm sure we learned more that I am forgetting.

Re: JW's post

When the island vanished and the sky turned purple what did it unleash on the rest of the world?




Nestor Carbonell should never, ever, ever again be without work. Ever.

[JWBear]

Oh! I almost forgot! Now we know what happened to the statue!

[Ghoulish Delight]

Boom went the dynamite.


You know, when they went for the reveal so early, I thought, "Okay, good, now we know THAT'S not what the island is." I thought for sure it was a red herring.

As it became clear they meant it, I was got a little worried. But they won me over with the period piece. Epic is indeed the word. And they pulled it off, I'm in. And I'm certain I've said, "If this turns out to be hell I'm going to be pissed." But they did it in the only way it works, no bones about it mythology. I love this version of the devil. It's very reminiscent of the Twilight Zone's usual take.

Oh, that was great.

And, coincidence, or Health Care Reform propaganda?

[bewitched]

AWESOME episode!

Nestor Carbonell kicked ass

[Frikitiki]

whoa schnikes!

[innerSpaceman]

Now that's what I'm talkin'. :cool:



GREAT episode!

[innerSpaceman]

I have to say, though, that I found Richard's being "doomed" to live forever to be kinda lame. Jacob couldn't give him any of the things he really desired, so Ricardo seemed to have made that one up on the spot while grasping at straws for what one wishes for when granted the proverbial 3 genii wishes.

They could have at least attempted to tie it in to the survival instinct just refreshed via his ocean water-boarding a few moments earlier. But you could see in Richard's face at that moment that he was just - ok, well, um, I guess ... um, live forever?


Still, it was my favorite episode of the season. Finally getting around to the Losties talking about their candidacies, and more of the conflict between old time Jacob and MIB - plus I've always said the off-island stuff is the best - and it doesn't get better than Period Romance Novel stuff with scruffy yummy Nestor.
:snap:

[Ghoulish Delight]

They could have at least attempted to tie it in to the survival instinct just refreshed via his ocean water-boarding a few moments earlier. But you could see in Richard's face at that moment that he was just - ok, well, um, I guess ... um, live forever?

He chose living forever because dying meant going to hell. It wasn't just, "Uuuh, I can't think of anything else", it was his only option left.

[innerSpaceman]

Sorry, where did the script say that? I must have missed it. You're welcome to your interpretation.

Mine is, of course, my own. But I based it on Nestor's performance at that moment. That's how I saw it.


Yeah, he had a fear of hell. But seeing as he seemed convinced what he thought was hell for a while really was not, I have a hard time believing fear of hell was paramount in his mind at the moment.

His first two choices were things the episode clearly established were deep desires. Live Forever never came up once before Richard asked for it kinda despondently when his real wishes were stymied.


Either way, he obviously got a bum deal. They must not have had tv or radio or books or such in 1837, because everyone knows you should never wish to live forever. :rolleyes: Poor stupid Ricardo.



In any event, and I'll leave this to more die-hard Lost experts - but just what has Richard been doing to fulfill his job to intervene against the influence of MIB during his ensuing eternity on the Island?

[SzczerbiakManiac]

The priest in the jail told Ricardo he did not have enough time to serve penance for his crime. It seems logical/plausible to me that Ricardo would choose to live forever so he would not go to Hell and have the time to pay for his ultimate sin.

Speaking of that smokin' hot immortal, why was he called Ricardus <sp?> if his original name was Ricardo? Isn't Ricardus the Latin version of Richard? I realize he's Latino, but that's really not the same thing.

[sleepyjeff]

Yeah, he had a fear of hell. But seeing as he seemed convinced what he thought was hell for a while really was not, I have a hard time believing fear of hell was paramount in his mind at the moment.




The three wishes were exactly in order and tied in directly with what happened earlier in the episode.

Wish 1...Wants wife back/kills for medicine.

Wish 2...Wants to avoid hell/asks priest to forgive his sins.

Wish 3...Wants to live forever/priest told him he didn't have time to make up for his sins.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Sorry, where did the script say that? I must have missed it. You're welcome to your interpretation. From memory, so no exact quotes but the exchange was...

Ricardo: Can you bring my wife back?
Jacob: No can do.
Ricardo: Can you absolve me of my sins so I don't got to Hell?
Jacob: That's a negative
Ricardo: Then I want to live forever.

I'm 99% sure that last one IS an exact quote, the "then" being the key. He realized what dying meant - not seeing his wife, and going to hell. Without a way out of that, living forever was a better choice than death, even as he knew that living forever would be its own torture.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I wonder how that episode sounded to native Spanish speakers. Because I barely needed the subtitles - which means it was a whole lot of Spanish 1, because my Spanish is NOT that good anymore. The dialog must have sounded pretty cheeseball to a native speaker.

[JWBear]

I wonder how that episode sounded to native Spanish speakers. Because I barely needed the subtitles - which means it was a whole lot of Spanish 1, because my Spanish is NOT that good anymore. The dialog must have sounded pretty cheeseball to a native speaker.

Some of the native speakers on another board (*cough* televisionwithoutpity *cough*) complemented it for being easy to understand. Apparently, a lot of Spanish on TV is spoken with terrible gringo accents...

[SzczerbiakManiac]

A thought just occurred to me. We know it's impossible to get to the island unless one approaches at exactly the right angle. What if this is not so much to keep people out, but to keep MIB in?Looks like I may have been on to something. (Sorry for the gloat, it's just so rare that I get anything right.)

I have another theory. As of "Recon" (last week's episode) I think that Jacob and MiB are brothers. Does anyone know of a famous pair of brothers, one named Jacob (or something similar) who was good and the other brother evil?

[JWBear]

Jacob & Esau (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1747152/jacob_and_esau_bible_story_puzzled.html?cat=2) come to mind.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Esau was a name used for MIB by a lot of people when he first appeared. And it definitely fits, what with the attempts to kill each other.

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Did Jacob & Esau have a crazy mother?

[Ghoulish Delight]

Did Jacob & Esau have a crazy mother?
Not crazy, but Jacob is the favored son in the story.

[JWBear]

Did Jacob & Esau have a crazy mother?

No, but Locke did (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Emily_Annabeth_Locke).


(Edited to add the link.)

[Cadaverous Pallor]

It goes without saying that I, too, loved this episode. :)

Ilana speaks Russian. Jacob may have used Latin as a go-between for all the languages and cultures.

I agree with iSm that Ricky's wish to live forever seemed off the cuff and that he should have been smart enough to know better, though GD's interpretation makes sense. They should have presented it as such.



ETA - should have hit refresh before posting...anyway, I think they presented it poorly.

[innerSpaceman]

Speaking of that smokin' hot immortal, why was he called Ricardus <sp?> if his original name was Ricardo? Isn't Ricardus the Latin version of Richard? I realize he's Latino, but that's really not the same thing.
Fine. Now I can't stop thinking of him as Ricky Ricardus. :blush:

The three wishes were exactly in order and tied in directly with what happened earlier in the episode.

Wish 1...Wants wife back/kills for medicine.

Wish 2...Wants to avoid hell/asks priest to forgive his sins.

Wish 3...Wants to live forever/priest told him he didn't have time to make up for his sins.

Well, he specifically advised he didn't have time because they were hanging him in the morning. The corollary that you must live forever to have the time if a few hours is not enough does not compute and I can't accept such a leap of illogic as a motivation for Ricky Ricardus.

[innerSpaceman]

Jacob & Esau (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1747152/jacob_and_esau_bible_story_puzzled.html?cat=2) come to mind.
Why am I assuming the link will lead to two hot, bearded SIM men?

[JWBear]

Why am I assuming the link will lead to two hot, bearded SIM men?

LOL! No, but it does give me ideas...


BTW... I found this little tidbit interesting:
The translation for "Jacob" in Hebrew is "he who holds by the heels". Jacob lives inside the foot of a statue.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

I loved the Richard backstory and I think the actor did a tremendous job.

I just find a good bit of this Jacob / MIB stuff to be very boring. Unless there is an amazingly clever twist that reveals the world (outside of the Island) is not what it seems, I'm not understanding how keeping MIB trapped on the Island has stopped malevolence and "evil" from spreading. The world that the survivors come from - all of the people Jacob contrives to bring to the Island for the purpose of proving *his* point (which, frankly, makes him an asshole) - is not a Garden of Eden free from sin or pain or injustice, etc. so what exactly is he saving the world from? Is he saying that all mankind is capable of good and evil, it comes down to the choices we make, and MIB would just be too capable of tipping the scales way too far in one direction?

I know the show has always been leading up to an eventual good/evil battle. I guess I find the previous allusions to and hints more interesting than the actual Jacob/MIB characters. Even if they turn out to be the bible's Jacob and Esau, I do like that they play more like the gods in Myths. Lost of the Titans!

At this point, just give me more of Frank the pilot. I love him to pieces.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I know the show has always been leading up to an eventual good/evil battle. I guess I find the previous allusions to and hints more interesting than the actual Jacob/MIB characters. Even if they turn out to be the bible's Jacob and Esau, I do like that they play more like the gods in Myths. Lost of the Titans!

I'm running on the assumption that they will continue to be some combination of many different mythologies, Greek, Egyptian, Roman, Biblical. With the implication being that the mythologies are all man's flawed attempts at recording what is "actually" happening. So they will bear resemblance to many different elements of the mythologies (Jacob and Esau, God and Satan, Zeus and Hades, Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum) without being exactly any of them.

Is he saying that all mankind is capable of good and evil, it comes down to the choices we make, and MIB would just be too capable of tipping the scales way too far in one direction? That seems to be it.

Interestingly, all of the candidates, by the time they got on flight 815, were leading lives that had them essentially hell-bound. So in that sense it could be viewed that Jacob was giving them an opportunity to save themselves.

Of course, it's also been said that Jacob was the one who influenced them to make the choices that lead them there. Which is why I'm guessing that in the flash-sideways storyline we will learn that even without that touch from Jacob, they all would have eventually gone down a path towards hell anyway, they just wouldn't have taken the detour through the island, receiving that opportunity to be saved.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

I'm running on the assumption that they will continue to be some combination of many different mythologies, Greek, Egyptian, Roman, Biblical. With the implication being that the mythologies are all man's flawed attempts at recording what is "actually" happening. So they will bear resemblance to many different elements of the mythologies (Jacob and Esau, God and Satan, Zeus and Hades, Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum) without being exactly any of them.

Assumption shared.

Interestingly, all of the candidates, by the time they got on flight 815, were leading lives that had them essentially hell-bound. So in that sense it could be viewed that Jacob was giving them an opportunity to save themselves.

Of course, it's also been said that Jacob was the one who influenced them to make the choices that lead them there. Which is why I'm guessing that in the flash-sideways storyline we will learn that even without that touch from Jacob, they all would have eventually gone down a path towards hell anyway, they just wouldn't have taken the detour through the island, receiving that opportunity to be saved.

Yeah, I'm wondering how (given how little time there is left) the alternate timeline will play out, and how all the loose ends will be tied up. Really looking forward to seeing Faraday (at least, I assume we'll see him since we just saw the other two) in the alternate timeline.

It all could be incredibly epic and awesome. I think I'm anxious and will, if I enjoy the rest of the season) need to rewatch everything since the MIB was introduced. I'm a little frustrated that the producers said, pretty early on, that the Island wasn't Limbo. Well, they may not be calling it Limbo, and they only just had their characters consider the possibility of it being Hell, but it seems more and more like the Island is some kind of limbo.

[sleepyjeff]

Well, he specifically advised he didn't have time because they were hanging him in the morning. The corollary that you must live forever to have the time if a few hours is not enough does not compute and I can't accept such a leap of illogic as a motivation for Ricky Ricardus.

With so many more important questions un-answered by this show I am not going to fall into wondering what Richards "real" motivation for living forever is......the answer was given last night(weak though it may have been); that question will not be re-visited so one has to either accept it(and I do) or not accept it.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

It occurred to me that any place that exists outside of earth's usual timeline is by definition in limbo (though perhaps not Limbo) and that those stuck there are for-all-intents-and-purposes dead.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

It occurred to me that any place that exists outside of earth's usual timeline is by definition in limbo (though perhaps not Limbo) and that those stuck there are for-all-intents-and-purposes dead.

I guess I'm perplexed because that was the #1 theory when this show first aired. The "survivors" were actually dead and this was their "Limbo", in which those who proved to be good would be somehow rewarded and those who proved to be bad would be somehow punished.

But then the producers spoke up to basically say, "No, no. Whatever you think, it's not Limbo." I suppose they could argue now that it's still not, though the situation is similar. I don't know. Either that or it obvious to a good many people what the Island was representing, and the writers/producers threw everyone a bone made of red herring.

[Ghoulish Delight]

They may be leaning on the technicality that it's not the Christian definition of Limbo. It's Limbo-like, but calling it Limbo is an insufficient description for what it really is.

[BarTopDancer]

I can't wait for the boxed set to come out (and drop in price). I want to watch this thing from the start to finish where I remember wtf happened in season 1 and how it relates to now. Of course that may very well be an exercise in frustration as questions that are asked (and I forgot about by now) aren't answered.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

They may be leaning on the technicality that it's not the Christian definition of Limbo. It's Limbo-like, but calling it Limbo is an insufficient description for what it really is.

Oh, I get that, but I don't thin it's as insufficient as they do, apparently.

[innerSpaceman]

Yeah, that's a cop-out herring if it's not strictly Christian-Limbo, but limbo enough that I still have to bend over backwards.

And bewitched, I'm not watching it for the answers. So I didn't care why Jacob "granted" Richard immortality - I just didn't like the way it played out. Richard didn't want immortality - he seemed to just pick it as a boobie prize. I think the rationale could have been made more clear - seeing that it is such a classically damning choice.


Anyway, I care about questions more than answers. It satisfied me so much that the the Jacob-Team Losties sat around a campfire and talked with EACH OTHER about being candidates for all of two minutes. I didn't care if there were no solutions. It was just long since time they actually accepted it and were discussing it.

I also enjoyed seeing some more of Jacob and MIB's interaction during the Black Rock days and finally have them say out loud that Jacob is a good god and MIB is a bad god, and they are out to influence the world for good or evil as the case may be.

The chips haven't moved one iota this entire season, but I feel they are FINALLY on the table.

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Who will replace Jacob?

Jack seems like a too obvious choice. And since he just started to make amends with his son in the in the sideways timeline, I don't think he'd go for it.

I could envision Hurley stepping into the white sandals. He's already a good person and I could easily see him wanting to keep evil from escaping. he doesn't seem to have any strong anchors off-island (other than cash).

Short of a left-field turn-around, I can't see Sawyer/Ford taking the reigns. Even as a cop, he's still looking out for numero uno too much.

Kate could be a twist, especially since she's in trouble in both timelines (meaning she has no reason to get off the island), that could be motivation to stick around. And she has a pretty good hart. She cared for Aaron and in her own twisted way, cared for her mother.

Sayid is lost (no pun intended), so I'm sure he's out of the running.

I'm not sure about the Kwons. Jin has a pretty shady past (mob thug) and Sun seemed to be making some shady deals with Widmore (whom I'm still unsure about as far as sides go), though on the whole the seem like decent folks. However, what would happen to the other if one of them replaced Jacob? Would the successor just give the other immortality so they could be with each other for all time?

What do y'all think?

[sleepyjeff]

One thing we did learn last night.....the others are not from the Black Rock.

Which brings us back to a season one question.....who are they and where did they come from?

Widmore, Hawking, Linus, and Locke???? Supposedly the leaders of the others and followers of Jacob but Jacob has Richard why did he need them?

[sleepyjeff]

and another thing.........

Why is Richard so convinced he is in hell now? Surely his trips to Miami, Tallahassee, Portland and who knows where else proved otherwise???

[innerSpaceman]

So did I hear right that the Captain (or at least high-up officer) on the Black Rock was a forbear of Charles Widmore?

[Ghoulish Delight]

His name was indeed Whidmore. Might actually be him, for all we know.

[sleepyjeff]

Who will replace Jacob?

Jack seems like a too obvious choice. And since he just started to make amends with his son in the in the sideways timeline, I don't think he'd go for it.

I could envision Hurley stepping into the white sandals. He's already a good person and I could easily see him wanting to keep evil from escaping. he doesn't seem to have any strong anchors off-island (other than cash).

Short of a left-field turn-around, I can't see Sawyer/Ford taking the reigns. Even as a cop, he's still looking out for numero uno too much.

Kate could be a twist, especially since she's in trouble in both timelines (meaning she has no reason to get off the island), that could be motivation to stick around. And she has a pretty good hart. She cared for Aaron and in her own twisted way, cared for her mother.

Sayid is lost (no pun intended), so I'm sure he's out of the running.

I'm not sure about the Kwons. Jin has a pretty shady past (mob thug) and Sun seemed to be making some shady deals with Widmore (whom I'm still unsure about as far as sides go), though on the whole the seem like decent folks. However, what would happen to the other if one of them replaced Jacob? Would the successor just give the other immortality so they could be with each other for all time?

What do y'all think?

"They are coming" I took to mean the candidates were on their way...since Sun was already there and no one else was I am going to guess she is not a candidate.

----side note---- I wonder if that was the loophole? Flocke had Ben kill Jacob at a time when all the candidates were way back in 1977....???

Jack just seems too easy as does Hurley.

Sayid, not a chance.

Jin, I don't know, perhaps.

Kate.......yep, the ultimate sacrifice for her....stuck in one place with no place to run:eek:

[sleepyjeff]

So did I hear right that the Captain (or at least high-up officer) on the Black Rock was a forbear of Charles Widmore?

His name was indeed Whidmore. Might actually be him, for all we know.

The Captain was Hanso.

The high up officer's name was "Whitfield", not Widmore unless there is a 3rd person I missed.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Ah, right.

[innerSpaceman]

Oh. Thanks.


(Good, because Lost is already quite gayly Dickensian and StarWarsian enough in that regard.)

[BarTopDancer]

The Captain was Hanso.

We were told about the Hanso Foundation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanso_Foundation) a few seasons ago.

The Hanso Foundation is a foundation in the Lost television series. It was formed by arms purveyor Alvar Hanso, who turned his attention from "keeping the world safe through the development of sophisticated weapons systems" to focus instead on the development of new technologies to "create a brighter future for all humanity." Nearly all information about the Foundation is drawn from its Web site, thehansofoundation.org, with further background revealed as part of the alternate reality game, the Lost Experience.

Maybe those viral campaigns were important. I can't check to see if thehansofoundation.org is still live.

[bewitched]

I have a glimmer of an idea forming about the sideways timeline....

Maybe the sideways timeline is life reset for all of the candidates who choose to eventually leave the island. Knowledge of the island (at least the knowledge of what the island really is) is reserved for those who choose to stay and serve the island. They don't remember the island, even though they were there because that knowledge has been erased from their consciousness (but it flits about as kind of a memory of a dream). But their lives are reset based on what they "chose" on the island and how it is reset is based on whether or not they found ultimate redemption; whether or not they were able to be "good" (which doesn't bode well for Kate, I suppose...i.e. "be good, Kate"). Jacob said everyone he brought there previously was dead...but he didn't say he killed them or, for that matter, that they necessarily died on the island. Maybe once you are vetted as a candidate, you can choose to stay and serve (and presumably not die) or to leave and live your life, with death being the only (inevitable) outcome to that life. This would also explain why the dead island people are alive in the sideways timeline. Maybe "death" on the island is really just a shift to the life you would have had if you wouldn't have been detoured in Jacob's efforts to get candidates to the island.

Does that make any sense?

[Ghoulish Delight]

I can't check to see if thehansofoundation.org is still live.
Not really. Attempts eventually lead you to lxico.com which has a Hanso logo and says "access disabled indefinitely". It's got a mission statement that doesn't say much, and a bio of Hanso that doesn't say much, then it has a list of "active projects" which are links to an "access denied' message. This is the list of projects.

The Hanso Life-Extension Project (http://lxicon.com/hanso/lep.html)

The Hanso Foundation Electromagnetic Research Initiative (http://lxicon.com/hanso/emri.html)

The Hanso Quest for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (http://lxicon.com/hanso/qeti.html)

The Hanso Mathematical Forecasting Initiative (http://lxicon.com/hanso/mfi.html)

The Hanso Cryogenics Development Imperative (http://lxicon.com/hanso/cdi.html)

The Hanso Juxtapositional Eugenics Development Institute (http://lxicon.com/hanso/jedi.html)

The Hanso Accelerated Remote Viewing Training Facility (http://lxicon.com/hanso/arvtf.html)

[Ghoulish Delight]

BTW, I'm still holding onto the possibility that it's not REALLY hell/limb, not REALLY supernatural, that Jacob and MIB just use the terms because that's what they want the people who arrive there to think. They may still end up at a "scientific" explanation for it all (which, of course, may also leave us with the notion that there is no distinction between science and mythos).

[bewitched]

One thing we did learn last night.....the others are not from the Black Rock.

Which brings us back to a season one question.....who are they and where did they come from?

Widmore, Hawking, Linus, and Locke???? Supposedly the leaders of the others and followers of Jacob but Jacob has Richard why did he need them?

People who chose to stay but didn't make it as the ultimate "candidate"?

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Yeah, I hardly think they would be revealing the true, true nature of the island with 8 episodes to go. That's the primary mystery of the show. When we heard that, we likened it to watching a procedural show and having the mystery "solved" with 20 minutes left. That mystery ain't solved yet, Dr. House - the patient will start coughing blood in 5... 4... 3...

And for that matter, I'm not convinced this has all been leading up to good v. evil. (But maybe that's wishful thinking, because I don't want it to be!) There have been many, many instances of confusion regarding who is on the right side, who is doing the right thing. "Jacob is the devil. No, wait, it's MIB." We haven't seen clear evidence that either is necessarily good. What we've seen of the pair is the same thing that we've seen of the rest of the Losties. People generally believe that they're using the right means to get to the right end. Unlike the Lost visual metaphors, there is very little black v. white for these characters. Only gray, gray, gray.

[JWBear]

I still think it's the Vorlons and the Shadows.

[BarTopDancer]

I think it's the Autobots vs. the Deceptcons.

Naveen Andrews is on L&O: SVU right now. /le sigh

[SzczerbiakManiac]

I still think it's the Vorlons and the Shadows.I think the Vorlons vs. Shadows (kudos for the B5 reference!) was about law vs. chaos, not good vs. evil. Thought I would love it if Jacob & MiB turn out to be as complex as those races.

[Strangler Lewis]

So the other night, while channel flipping, I stumbled onto a man in chains speaking Spanish and being manipulated by a man who looked like Richard Hatch. I gather this was that "Lost" show.

What have I missed?

P.S. If it turned out that the island is hell, I ain't buying the boxed set.

[JWBear]

I think the Vorlons vs. Shadows (kudos for the B5 reference!) was about law vs. chaos, not good vs. evil.

That was my point.

[Ghoulish Delight]

My real hope is that Jacob and MIB are actually one and the same. Unfortunately there have been too many scenes with the two of them conversing alone for that to be likely, but I'm still holding out hope.

[sleepyjeff]

My real hope is that Jacob and MIB are actually one and the same. Unfortunately there have been too many scenes with the two of them conversing alone for that to be likely, but I'm still holding out hope.

And whoever wins gets to have the teeth:D

[Betty]

Has the Mib been able to impersonate anyone dead on the island - including people like Jack's dad? Was it him that instructed on the donkey wheel? I don't remember the exact details of when that happened.

[scaeagles]

I've been wondering that. I figure it was him who impersonated Richard's wife. If he can impersonate anyone, why does he choose to look like Locke?

[Gn2Dlnd]

Because "Locke" was able to manipulate Ben into killing Jacob.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I think he COULD impersonate anyone, but whatever "loophole" he used to get to Jacob, the tradeoff was that now he's stuck as Locke. Didn't whatshername from the 2nd plane essentially say as much?

In my mind, all the dead people we saw on the island, maybe including the one's Hurley saw off the island, were MIB. Locke is MIB. But Isabella then could not be.

[Gn2Dlnd]

I think the Isabella that first appeared to Ricardo, while he was still in chains, was MIB. The Isabella seen by Hurley was Isabella.

[JWBear]

The Isabella seen by Hurley was Isabella.

There is also a theory going around that it was Jacob. (Not that i believe it. Just that it's been theorized.)

[Ghoulish Delight]

I think the Isabella that first appeared to Ricardo, while he was still in chains, was MIB. The Isabella seen by Hurley was Isabella.
Oh yeah, forgot about that first appearance. Agreed re: her first appearance. Jury's out on the one Hurley saw, but according to what we supposedly know about MIB, can't be him, unless maybe Ricardusochard flipping sides changed the rules again.

[scaeagles]

In my mind, all the dead people we saw on the island, maybe including the one's Hurley saw off the island, were MIB.

Since MIB is trapped on the island I don't think the ones Hurley saw off the island could be MIB.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Since MIB is trapped on the island I don't think the ones Hurley saw off the island could be MIB.
That's why I left it at maybe. I'm not willing to rule it out but yeah, not based on current information.

[Gn2Dlnd]

As with Isabella, I think the dead people Hurley is seeing are themselves. I also think Miles' dead people are themselves. Now, who the hell is Christian is another question altogether. I'm fairly convinced that Victor is Jacob, as was the pretty green bird that flew into the Black Rock the morning after it crashed. So he can observe, without any direct influence on the proceedings. I want the Hurleybird explained, as well.

[JWBear]

What about Kate's horse?

[scaeagles]

What about Kate's horse?

I don't think Sawyer is MIB (ba-dum bum).

[sleepyjeff]

HAPPY LOST DAY!!!


Over half way to The End!

[innerSpaceman]

Bah, I'm gonna miss LOST tonight. Frelling seder (which will be better than any 10 LOST episodes, so I'm not really upset - but the timing could have been better).

No, I don't have TIVO. I watch one show only. It's LOST.


Is it available on iTunes after broadcast??

[BarTopDancer]

It's available on the ABC website after broadcast.

-----

Here's a fun game: What were you doing/where was your life when LOST! started in 2004?

[Frikitiki]

just catch it on ABC.com

[innerSpaceman]

If I'm late to work tomorrow, I hope they'll understand that I had to watch LOST after I got home late from our rad seder.

[JWBear]

Here's a fun game: What were you doing/where was your life when LOST! started in 2004?

9/22/04 was a Wednesday. The only thing on my work calendar that day was a training that I had to go to.

I was still living in Fullerton. Other than that, I don't remember.

[BarTopDancer]

I didn't literally mean the day - I meant what were you doing in 2004. Idea came to me when I realized most of us have *known* each other for 9-10 years.

[JWBear]

Obviously nothing very interesting was going on in my life then if I can't remember it 6 years later.

[innerSpaceman]

I have no concept of time. So I don't much remember what happened when.

For sure, though, Isaac and I had taken a trip to Paris over that summer, and were likely still in the afterglow when Lost premiered in September.

I remember thinking Lost was a reality show before I actually saw an episode. And learning that Sawyer was named after my brother-in-law, Richard Sawyer (as part of a then-traditional professional rivalry ploy between my bro-in-law and one of the series' bigwigs).

[sleepyjeff]

I remember thinking Lost was a reality show before I actually saw an episode.

Me too.....which isn't hard to understand considering the fact that it was:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_%282001_TV_series%29

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I didn't literally mean the day - I meant what were you doing in 2004. Idea came to me when I realized most of us have *known* each other for 9-10 years.In fall of 2004 we were at Fab's Board. :eek:

[BarTopDancer]

In fall of 2004 we were at Fab's Board. :eek:

:eek:

[JWBear]

Spoiled in case not everyone has seen it:

DESMOND!!!

[Ghoulish Delight]

Spoilered for salty language

F*ck ABC. F*ck V. On an subtitle-heavy episode you shove that f*cking V in my face? F*ck.

Okay, with that out of the way, another stellar episode. Yay. I'm reminded of how I felt about the show when Ben appeared as a character, how at that moment I totally saw they were headed to a situation where the Losties would end up acting like Others, and we'd totally understand why, and I'm so happy that it's starting to pay off. Good times.

[BarTopDancer]

Double You Tee Efff

[Ghoulish Delight]

So, while we haven't seen his name on either the wall or in the lighthouse, I suspect Desmond was a candidate and Whidmore has figured out that if he can keep desmond there, he still counts as a candidate and therefore the MIB can't leave.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

What did MIB mean when he said that Kate's name was not on the wall "any more"? I was under the assumption that their names are only crossed out when they die. I guess I was wrong. (Or Kate's dead.)

[Ghoulish Delight]

Ben's crossed out, Miles is crossed out. Death (or re-death or whatever) does not appear to be necessary.

[scaeagles]

Or he lied.

[Stan4dSteph]

The Constant returns.

[Gn2Dlnd]

They's buttons to be pushed!

[innerSpaceman]

Yay, I liked that episode a lot. And I like watching on the internet instead of TV. Less commercials. I think I'll do that for the rest of the season.

[JWBear]

Also, as soon as Keemy asked for the Russian guy who speaks a lot of languages, I thought "Mikhail!" And it was!

[scaeagles]

I like that his eye was shot out. That sounds bad. I only meant because it was a link to him with the eyepatch.

[sleepyjeff]

Or he lied.

Oh yeah, he was lying big time.....He told Claire her name wasn't on the wall....even though it was crossed out, it most certainly was up there.

[sleepyjeff]

So, while we haven't seen his name on either the wall or in the lighthouse, I suspect Desmond was a candidate and Whidmore has figured out that if he can keep desmond there, he still counts as a candidate and therefore the MIB can't leave.

Spoiler(last nights preview of next weeks episode information)
Widmore mentioned something along the lines of Desmond being the sacrifice that the Island demanded.

Based on that information(and the fact that his name wasn't on the cave wall or lighthouse wheel of fortune thingy) I don't think Desmond was brought to the Island to replace Jacbob.

I think he was brought there for something more sinister, something that may confirm everyone's negative opinion of Mr. Widmore.

[JWBear]

I'm starting to wonder if Smocke isn't the evil that the Island is containing, but that his presence there is what is keeping the evil bottled up; and Jacob is there to keep Smocke from leaving. The smoke monster has been described several time as a security device. Just a thought...

[innerSpaceman]

But Widmore loves Desmond. :(

[sleepyjeff]

I'm starting to wonder if Smocke isn't the evil that the Island is containing, but that his presence there is what is keeping the evil bottled up; and Jacob is there to keep Smocke from leaving. The smoke monster has been described several time as a security device. Just a thought...

I think you're on to something there.

---------------------------------------

Another thought about last nights episode..........Sun was shot. Sun is preggers. Sun and baby need a doctor. Any extremely talented baby doctors out there?

Shootings also require police attention......hmmmmm:D

[scaeagles]

I thought you wrote "Sun was hot". I was going to mojo that many times over. She WAS hot.

But JW, that is a very interesting point.

[sleepyjeff]

Yes, most definitely yes Sun is very hot(and with Claire in desperate need of some soap and Kate getting worry lines by the hour her beauty hits us without distraction)

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I'm annoyed by Claire's dirty look while everyone else has always looked gorgeous sans baths.

[BarTopDancer]

I'm annoyed by Claire's dirty look while everyone else has always looked gorgeous sans baths.

She's supposed to look wild like Danielle did.

[sleepyjeff]

She's supposed to look wild like Danielle did.

I suppose that's what they're going for....but it's not working, she just looks plain dirty to me.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I don't think it helps that she's proving to not be a very good actress.

[innerSpaceman]

Yeah, she was much better as sweet than as crazy. But I'm buying the dirty because, as you know, crazy = dirty. Sane = supernaturally clean.

[Frikitiki]

WOW, Page 100...who would have thought?

As an additional thought, what do you think the chances are of LOST going into syndication?

[scaeagles]

I doubt it. Serialized shows don't do well in syndication because the story line is what the show is about. It's tough to just see a syndicated episode here and there and have any idea what's going on.

DVD sales will be it, I'm sure.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

The annoying V promo got some bad press, including jokes on Letterman and Colbert. (none of it is interesting enough to link to.)

[Morrigoon]

So rumor has it, they're going to make a movie to continue the storyline

[sleepyjeff]

So rumor has it, they're going to make a movie to continue the storyline

I hope not......with all the waste-of-time-filler-type episodes we've had this year and last they've had more than enough time to tell us the whole story....a movie would be a slap in the face.

[innerSpaceman]

Still waiting for my Deadwood movie. :rolleyes: