The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by wendybeth

The fact that so many terrorists had seemed to be so assimilated into western culture (BBQ's with neighbors, partying at bars and strip clubs, living in suburbs, etc) makes it difficult for any Muslim to claim no affiliation or sympathies with extremists- people just say "yeah, that's what they want us to believe, but I'm not buying it".

I can see that. The reason is that the most vocal in the Islamic world are the extremists - as is the case in most groups of people. If the leadership in the Islamic community that opposes terrorism and Islamic extremism would become the most vocal and loudly oppose bin Laden and his ilk then the idea that not all Muslims want to kill the infidel would gain traction and eventually be accepted.

[mousepod]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

If the leadership in the Islamic community that opposes terrorism and Islamic extremism would become the most vocal and loudly oppose bin Laden and his ilk then the idea that not all Muslims want to kill the infidel would gain traction and eventually be accepted.

Sure. But why do they have to reach that bar? I read lots of your posts, and I rarely see you condemning the God Hates Fags people.

Once you start condemning them here every day, I'll be a little less suspicious of your "Christianity".

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by mousepod

Sure. But why do they have to reach that bar? I read lots of your posts, and I rarely see you condemning the God Hates Fags people.

Once you start condemning them here every day, I'll be a little less suspicious of your "Christianity".

I condemn the God Hates Fags people. I will condemn them every time I hear of them doing their stupid stuff.

Something tells me that isn't going to help your suspicion.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I can see that. The reason is that the most vocal in the Islamic world are the extremists

Are they the most vocal, or are they the ones that your window on the world gives the most voice to?

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Are they the most vocal, or are they the ones that your window on the world gives the most voice to?

Perhaps there is valid insight in that post.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

How so, JW? What is it that she would do? I would guess the two primary things on everyones mind would be her stance on abortion, same sex marriage, and teaching creationism.

Abortion is opposed by many non religious people as well. It's a 50-50 split in most polls. Same sex marriage is something like 60-40 against and even in CA there were votes that showed opposition to it. Creationism...OK. Maybe you have something there, but I fail to see how that's a huge threat unless you are talking some sort of slippery slope argument, and I make those all the time, so I'm OK with them.

Typically what the division on the meaning of separation of church and state comes down to what is viewed as hostility toward religion, Christianity in particular. I think there are some extreme examples of it. They don't want to be threatened that professing as a tenet of their faith that homosexual conduct is sinful is hate speech. They don't understand why groups want crosses taken out of Arlington. Any number of things. And I do believe it scares them. While I'm sure that there are groups that would like the Bible taught as...uh...gospel in the public school, I think those are quite a huge minority.

The fear is that to many, freedom of religion is becoming freedom from religion. While no one is forced to worship, nor should they be, no one should be forced to NOT worship or think as they please.

I also do not think that the protests against Mosques have as much to do with Islam as is it opposed to radical Islamists. If CAIR (Council on American Islamic Relations) and the Saudis and bin Laden and whomever were willing to all denounce radical Islam, much of this fear would subside and i think the vast majority of protests would stop.

Wow... Just... Wow. Where do I start?

People like O'Donnel want to impose their narrow version of Christianity on the entire nation, and outlaw everything else. They want it to be law. It's not just their opposition to abortion, homosexuality, and science. They want us all to live under a fundamentalist Christian sharia law.

While it is true that some non-religious people oppose abortion, many religious people support a woman’s right to chose.

You are absolutely wrong about the support for same-sex marriage. The current polls show about 60% support for it. And as for “votes that showed opposition to it’… there are still people in this country that would vote to outlaw interracial marriage; deny minorities and women the right to vote; and, I would be willing to bet, reinstate slavery. So what?

Forcing creationism to be taught in public schools is a threat. It threatens the scientific and rational growth of this country. It is also a slap in the face to every non-Christian and every free thinking Christian child it is force fed too.

I have to finish this now, because I need to go. I’ll address your paragraph on the separation of church and state later.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by JWBear

People like O'Donnel want to impose their narrow version of Christianity on the entire nation, and outlaw everything else. They want it to be law....They want us all to live under a fundamentalist Christian sharia law.

You say this with the same proof as people who claim Obama is a Muslim.

After a very brief and completely not thorough search, I find I wasn't too far off, but my data (based on this one citing) is about a year old.

From a recent CNN story:

The poll -- which combines two surveys conducted from July to September of this year -- found that 42 percent of Americans favor same-sex marriage, while 48 percent oppose it.

In polls conducted in 2009, 37 percent favored gay marriage while 54 percent were opposed, Pew said.

Not too far off the 20% I referenced off the top of my head, but again, a year old.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

You say this with the same proof as people who claim Obama is a Muslim.

After a very brief and completely not thorough search, I find I wasn't too far off, but my data (based on this one citing) is about a year old.

From a recent CNN story:


Not too far off the 20% I referenced off the top of my head, but again, a year old.

The proof I have is reading what they themselves have written.

As for the poll numbers... What does it really matter anyway? Are we to begin only giving rights that the majority approves of? I don't think I want to live in your America.

Now... I want to respond to your previous message regarding separation of church and state. You stated that this is viewed as hostility towards religion. Hogwash! It’s respecting the religious rights of all people. One of the main purposes of that 1st amendment clause is to protect the religious minorities (including those who profess no religion) from the majority using government power to persecute them. Being a Christian does not give you the right to use the government to persecute those you disagree with. This same protection, by the way, keeps Christians from being persecuted too. It’s a two way street. The 1st Amendment guarantees that all religions belief is equal under the eyes of the law, and that no religion belief is promoted over any other. The separation of church and state protects everyone.

They have every right to profess that homosexuality is a sin. What they do not have the right to do is make their belief law. And I am aware of no law in this country that punishes “hate speech”. Would you care to elaborate?

And while you are at it, can you please explain just who is trying to remove crosses from Arlington? Or any of those “any number of things” you claim are persecuting Christians? What Christians have been forced to stop peacefully worshiping as they see fit? Please name the churches that have been raided; the ministers or congregants that have been jailed for their beliefs.

I can give you any number of examples of non-Christians being persecuted by Christian majorities.

Claiming that not having the right to force everyone to follow their narrow view of Christianity is somehow denying them their freedom of religion is the same as someone who kills another person with a gun claiming that laws against murder infringe on their 2nd Amendment rights.

[scaeagles]

Crap, JW...I just wrote a lengthy response to your post and it took too long and I lost it. No time to repeat now, but I will eventually.

[JWBear]

Yet another reason not to vote Republican.