Yes, we can.

[Moonliner]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

I am proud to be an American, in spite of whatever has happened in the last few years. Why?

Because I live in a country where I can say that I don't like the government without fear of thugs knocking on my door in the middle of the night to drag me and my family away.

Because I live in a country where I am free to read anything I want without it being dictated by my government.

Because I live in a country that does not deny me access to certain parts of the internet.

Because I live in a country where I can have a say in who leads my country and who represents me in government. And while I am just one vote amongst millions, I still get to vote.

I would go on, but my time is limited.

But there is cause for concern...

wikileaks.org <-- Can you get to that site? No. Your goverment has blocked it.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by Moonliner

But there is cause for concern...

wikileaks.org <-- Can you get to that site? No. Your goverment has blocked it.

You and your tin foil hat. One can easily go to that site. Just click here: http://wikileaks.be/wiki/Wikileaks

[Moonliner]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

You and your tin foil hat. One can easily go to that site. Just click here: http://wikileaks.be/wiki/Wikileaks

Hey Mr. Head in the sand...

Your government, without opposing testimony, ordered an ISP to block all access to a web site and prevented it from moving the domain name to another server. Sure in this case there happen to be foreign mirrors. What if it happened to LoT because some foreign government got pissy about a post?

If you're OK with that then I guess it's my Tin hat VS your blind faith.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by Moonliner

Hey Mr. Head in the sand...

Your government, without opposing testimony, ordered an ISP to block all access to a web site and prevented it from moving the domain name to another server. Sure in this case there happen to be foreign mirrors. What if it happened to LoT because some foreign government got pissy about a post?

If you're OK with that then I guess it's my Tin hat VS your blind faith.

Without reading the entire history of the whys and whatfors, I cannot argue with nor corroborate the claims. And I have no intention to. No system is perfect: you will find holes in it.

Besides, the site was taken down because they were posting BANKING DOCUMENTS with personal information. From what I can read of the one story, it appears that these documents were obtained illegally (they were not public documents). The site refused to take down the illegally acquired documents, so the court was not only right in allowing this site from being taken down but was (IMO) obligated top do so.

I may be reading a little more into the article than is actually there, but I feel confident that I am pretty close.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by wendybeth

I would say I'm grateful and relieved for the things KB listed, but not necessarily proud. Things that make me proud are when people (and country) do good things, things that make me sit back and say "Oh, yeah- wtg!" I suppose I could find plenty to be proud of so far as my country, but in recent years I've been spending far more time cringing rather than glowing. I'm not alone, and tossing the tired old anti-patriotic mantle at people like me is not going to get anyone anywhere. It hasn't thus far, that's for certain.

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

To me, that's exactly like saying I'm proud to be a white American male because I was so talented in arranging it so.

Why be "proud" to have the rights that are inalienable?

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Agreed with above. Mistaking pride for gratitude. Big difference. Pride should come from an active accomplishment of good things, not from innate states of existence.

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

I think the word you are looking for is "fortunate" or "lucky", and they are not synonymous with "pride". Pride is defined as: pleasure or satisfaction taken in something done by or belonging to oneself or believed to reflect credit upon oneself.

I'm not sure you did anything to earn the privilege to call yourself an American, you just got lucky enough to be born here. To me, it's like saying, I'm proud I won the lottery.

Sorry, I disagree with all of you.

I AM proud.

I am proud because I actively participate in keeping all of the things I said in my post alive and well. Democracy does not continue to exist simply because it is my inalienable right. It continues to exist because I (and you) actively keep it alive. Whether we do that by complaining about or congratulating our current leadership, we still accomplish the same goal.

Yes, I am proud to be an American.