Yes, we can. - Page 226

Morrigoon · 10-13-2008, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWBear

Soooo... You're saying that when there are signs of voter fraud, the losing party just has to shut up and take it? I don't think so.

I'm so very sorry they were irritated. How inconsiderate of us for wanting a fair chance at the White House.

I'm just pointing out the other side. As someone who has jumped from voting for one party to voting for the other this time around, I figured I was qualified to point out that neither party is innocent here.

I don't honestly believe that Gore won the last election. Maybe I should make that position clear.

flippyshark · 10-13-2008, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morrigoon

I don't honestly believe that Gore won the last election.

He'd have had a hard time, since he didn't run.

scaeagles · 10-13-2008, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWBear

Actually... In the last two presidential elections there was vastly more voter fraud (and blatant voter suppression) on the part of the Republicans. The old "Your friend shoplifted, so you have to let me commit armed robbery" defense is old, tired, and just plain indefensible.

Excuse me.....excuse me. No, no, no. I brought up a point, and I believe it was YOU, sir, that offered up a deflection away from crooked dems to make it a republican thing in this context. YOU are the one using the defense that you so condescendingly accuse me of.

JWBear · 10-13-2008, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Excuse me.....excuse me. No, no, no. I brought up a point, and I believe it was YOU, sir, that offered up a deflection away from crooked dems to make it a republican thing in this context. YOU are the one using the defense that you so condescendingly accuse me of.

And you would be right... If the accusation you made was true.

scaeagles · 10-13-2008, 10:56 AM

HA! More arrogance from the world of "dems surely couldn't be corrupt!" thinkers.

Sheesh.

I guess then, whenever I am told that I bring up something merely as a deflection, that all I have to do is say that the original point was false and I'm OK. So ISM, if you read this, please be advised I may adopt this philosophy.

innerSpaceman · 10-13-2008, 12:34 PM

Nope, that may work for JWBear, but not for me. The Dems are crooked, too. I don't happen to believe they're as crooked as the Republicans, but that doesn't excuse them one bit in my book.

I'm not sure what allegations we're talking about anymore. But it appears to me that the allegations of ACORN committing registration fraud are true (several people have been indicted, if not yet convicted??), but the allegations of voter fraud are false ... or, at best, merely allegations without a shred of evidence. To which I repeat ... YAWN.

There's a certain philosophy (which I don't condone) that crookedness in winning an election is vital, if it's imperative for the good of the nation / state / county /city that one's candidate be elected at all costs.

Morrigoon's evocation of Gore reminds me that he gracefully stopped his efforts after the U.S. Supreme Court ruling, declining to take further steps to be elected at all costs. In retrospect of the past 8 years, the coup d'etat committed by the Republicans to install Bush as their puppet dictator was precisely the kind of thing one could almost legitimately use as the rationale to be elected instead at any costs for the good of the country and the world.

And may I remind everyone that the U.S. Supreme Court ruling held there WAS a civil rights violation in Florida which denied thousands their right to vote. The Court gave the Gore campaign less than 24 hours to tally those votes, which was obviously impossible - and thus the Court was complicit in the coup d'etat. But, by that same Supreme Court ruling, it was indeed a coup d'etat. Thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of Floridians were denied their right to vote ... and the difference of counted votes between Gore and Bush was something like 357.

Back to you, scaeagles.

Yes, as we near the end of the disastrous Bush Presidency, I unashamedly dredge up the 2000 election and remind everyone that it started so appropriately to how it then proceeded for eight tragic years.

scaeagles · 10-13-2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Nope, that may work for JWBear, but not for me.

Back to you, scaeagles.

I was speaking sarcastically, of course. I also deep down inside want JW to be chastized, too.

JWBear · 10-13-2008, 01:49 PM

For the record, I have no illusions that Democrats have not committed voter fraud. However, it it plain that the shear volume of voter fraud committed by Republicans makes the Democratic efforts pale in comparison.

There was voter suppression in Florida in 2000. Because of it, Bush "won" the state, and therefore the election. This served to embolden the likes of Rove to greater feats in 2004. (Though I do believe that Bush won that election fair and square, despite the fraud.)

There were some ACORN employees that are accused of fraud, but that was an isolated instance in just one office. They were terminated from ACORN for violating ACORN's rules. This, in no way. reflects on ACORN as a whole.

The main complaint by Republicans seems to be that some of the voter registrations they have collected were illegitimate. ACORN doesn't fill them out, but merely collects them from the potential voters who do. ACORN (and any like organization) is required by law to turn all voter registrations it collects over to local election officials. They do not vet the registrations, and can hardly be blamed for the ones that are illegitimate.

At my work, we are required by state law to give voter registration forms to everyone who applies. We are not allowed to tell anyone that they can not fill them out - even if they are non-citizens. We do not have the authority to determine if someone is eligible to vote; that power rests with the Registrar of Voters Office. We are also required by law to turn in any completed voter registrations our clients give us. By the very same reasoning used by those who attack ACORN, the County of Orange is guilty of voter fraud because some of those registrations are illegitimate.

Morrigoon · 10-13-2008, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flippyshark

He'd have had a hard time, since he didn't run.

Pffft, you knew who I meant. Lurch and Ken-doll.

(I have a very short attention span at work, keep getting interrupted mid-thought with, you know, work)

Strangler Lewis · 10-13-2008, 02:03 PM

As expected, Mom's thrown her vote in the mail for McCain. The reason being: his association with the ACORN fraud. Perhaps if she had voted on election day like a good American, this would have all died down. On the other hand, I'm sure there would have been some last minute smear that she would have glommed onto to avoid voting for Obama.

10-13-2008, 10:56 AM	#2255
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	HA! More arrogance from the world of "dems surely couldn't be corrupt!" thinkers. Sheesh. I guess then, whenever I am told that I bring up something merely as a deflection, that all I have to do is say that the original point was false and I'm OK. So ISM, if you read this, please be advised I may adopt this philosophy.
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10-13-2008, 12:34 PM	#2256
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Nope, that may work for JWBear, but not for me. The Dems are crooked, too. I don't happen to believe they're as crooked as the Republicans, but that doesn't excuse them one bit in my book. I'm not sure what allegations we're talking about anymore. But it appears to me that the allegations of ACORN committing registration fraud are true (several people have been indicted, if not yet convicted??), but the allegations of voter fraud are false ... or, at best, merely allegations without a shred of evidence. To which I repeat ... YAWN. There's a certain philosophy (which I don't condone) that crookedness in winning an election is vital, if it's imperative for the good of the nation / state / county /city that one's candidate be elected at all costs. Morrigoon's evocation of Gore reminds me that he gracefully stopped his efforts after the U.S. Supreme Court ruling, declining to take further steps to be elected at all costs. In retrospect of the past 8 years, the coup d'etat committed by the Republicans to install Bush as their puppet dictator was precisely the kind of thing one could almost legitimately use as the rationale to be elected instead at any costs for the good of the country and the world. And may I remind everyone that the U.S. Supreme Court ruling held there WAS a civil rights violation in Florida which denied thousands their right to vote. The Court gave the Gore campaign less than 24 hours to tally those votes, which was obviously impossible - and thus the Court was complicit in the coup d'etat. But, by that same Supreme Court ruling, it was indeed a coup d'etat. Thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of Floridians were denied their right to vote ... and the difference of counted votes between Gore and Bush was something like 357. Back to you, scaeagles. Yes, as we near the end of the disastrous Bush Presidency, I unashamedly dredge up the 2000 election and remind everyone that it started so appropriately to how it then proceeded for eight tragic years.
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10-13-2008, 01:49 PM	#2258
JWBear Worn Romantic Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Long Beach California Posts: 8,435	For the record, I have no illusions that Democrats have not committed voter fraud. However, it it plain that the shear volume of voter fraud committed by Republicans makes the Democratic efforts pale in comparison. There was voter suppression in Florida in 2000. Because of it, Bush "won" the state, and therefore the election. This served to embolden the likes of Rove to greater feats in 2004. (Though I do believe that Bush won that election fair and square, despite the fraud.) There were some ACORN employees that are accused of fraud, but that was an isolated instance in just one office. They were terminated from ACORN for violating ACORN's rules. This, in no way. reflects on ACORN as a whole. The main complaint by Republicans seems to be that some of the voter registrations they have collected were illegitimate. ACORN doesn't fill them out, but merely collects them from the potential voters who do. ACORN (and any like organization) is required by law to turn all voter registrations it collects over to local election officials. They do not vet the registrations, and can hardly be blamed for the ones that are illegitimate. At my work, we are required by state law to give voter registration forms to everyone who applies. We are not allowed to tell anyone that they can not fill them out - even if they are non-citizens. We do not have the authority to determine if someone is eligible to vote; that power rests with the Registrar of Voters Office. We are also required by law to turn in any completed voter registrations our clients give us. By the very same reasoning used by those who attack ACORN, the County of Orange is guilty of voter fraud because some of those registrations are illegitimate. __________________ Unrestrained frivolity will lead to the downfall of modern society.
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10-13-2008, 02:03 PM	#2260
Strangler Lewis Doing The Job Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: In a state Posts: 3,956	As expected, Mom's thrown her vote in the mail for McCain. The reason being: his association with the ACORN fraud. Perhaps if she had voted on election day like a good American, this would have all died down. On the other hand, I'm sure there would have been some last minute smear that she would have glommed onto to avoid voting for Obama. __________________ Live now-pay later. Diner's Club!
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