"Why Believe in God" ad campaign

[€uroMeinke]

The problem with absolute belief systems is they are absolute and almost require the banning or destruction of the other (if it is to survive). If Islam is frightening, it's also a monotheistic belief system, with it's own ethics and morality. If you accept Christianity only for those reasons then you must also accept Islam - or this just becomes an argument of justifying your own beliefs of what is good or evil.

[David E]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

The problem with absolute belief systems is they are absolute

Why is that a problem? Our criminal law reflects our beliefs – shouldn’t murder laws apply to any two people given the same circumstances? Why would it be wrong for one but not the other? (See my other post about absolute vs. relative morality)

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

and almost require the banning or destruction of the other (if it is to survive).

Well some do and some don’t. To recap the previous examples:

1 Radical Islam does what you say and requires the destruction of the other.
2 Dictatorial Secularism doesn’t require it but often destroys outside (and inside) threats to it.
3 Buddhism passes judgment on evil, but does not use violence to stop or prevent it, leaving it to Karma.
4 Western European style Secularism does not pass judgment (relative morality) or use violence to stop evil.
5 Judaism/Christianity requires the destruction only of evil systems and so would act against 1 and 2 but not 3 and 4. (Note that judgment on what is evil is made on the basis of behavior, not on the basis of differing beliefs.)

Looking at the list, it seems that all systems are absolute except 4, which is relative, and the one I assume you favor. No. 2 I think has an absolute system: survival of the fittest where strength, power and self-preservation are revered (Saddam, Pol Pot).

So destruction of the other can be good sometimes, if the other is bad, which is why I prefer 5.

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

If Islam is frightening, it's also a monotheistic belief system, with it's own ethics and morality. If you accept Christianity only for those reasons then you must also accept Islam

No, I said I was skeptical about systems with their own morality. The bus ads are talking to our culture (4’s and 5’s) and are trying to get rid of the No. 5 God.
Regarding Islam, I don’t accept No 1, but I support Islam as it is practiced in America, which has been compatible with our value system, (probably more with 5 than 4). For example, if practicing Muslims dominated an American city, I would feel safer about leaving my car unlocked and worry less about my daughter being killed by a drunk driver than in a secular dominated city. American freedom of religion has led to good manifestations of it.

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

- or this just becomes an argument of justifying your own beliefs of what is good or evil.

Well, yeah, of course I am; everyone on this thread is advocating for what they believe. Don’t you believe 4 (WE) is better than 5 (JC) and present your case to justify that choice? As adults, we get to look at the choices and switch based on looking at what each has to offer. That’s what the bus ads are trying for.

[flippyshark]

Originally Posted by David E

Regarding Islam, I don’t accept No 1, but I support Islam as it is practiced in America, which has been compatible with our value system, (probably more with 5 than 4). For example, if practicing Muslims dominated an American city, I would feel safer about leaving my car unlocked and worry less about my daughter being killed by a drunk driver than in a secular dominated city. American freedom of religion has led to good manifestations of it.

Actually, I recently visited a vast city, one of the world's largest, in which the crime rate is incredibly low, and where strangers will go out of their way to help you if you are lost or return your wallet if you have left it behind. It wasn't at all a Christian city, or even an Abrahamic one. It was Tokyo. (Which, I guess, falls somewhere around category 4 - essentially secular, with ceremonial observance of Shinto and Buddhism.) I would feel safer about leaving my car unlocked there than any other city I have visited. (Though, given the exemplary public transport, I wouldn't have a car there.)

Willingness to defend seems important to your value judgement of a society, and I guess I understand that. It has to survive if it is going to continue to offer value. So, I don't see why a country couldn't be officially secular (tolerating all religions and beliefs within it but not endorsing any of them), and still committed to a strong defense. In fact, I know plenty of secularists who believe that is exactly what the USA is supposed to be.

The monotheistic religions carry a great deal of cultural capital (even with godless folk like me), but I can't find a fixed set of values (personal or institutional) in any of them. Endless wars have been carried out within these religions, endless splits and schisms, reforms and reactions. Have you yet specified which values, and if fixed, by whom?