"Why Believe in God" ad campaign

[David E]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

To be sure the existence of God(s) would be a much easier sell if he/she/they actually showed up now and then - I find their absence telling.

Many religious people think God reveals himself to them all the time. They attribute phenomena to him that science can’t explain - everything from the mathematically improbable coincidences we all experience, to ghosts to past life regressions...these may not all point to the existence of God, but they are supernatural and they are glimpses of something.

Of course the main argument for limited revelation is one you probably know about: moral choice and free will. If God were visible and were to unequivocally show the consequences of bad behavior, it would be easy to be good and we would essentially be automatons. If you were to design a video game and populate it with your creations, it would be pretty boring to have them behave according to what the rules you have coded, which you have already predicted; as opposed to introducing some algorithms that would set in to motion some more interesting interactions...

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by David E

Many religious people think God reveals himself to them all the time. They attribute phenomena to him that science can’t explain - everything from the mathematically improbable coincidences we all experience, to ghosts to past life regressions...these may not all point to the existence of God, but they are supernatural and they are glimpses of something.

Of course the main argument for limited revelation is one you probably know about: moral choice and free will. If God were visible and were to unequivocally show the consequences of bad behavior, it would be easy to be good and we would essentially be automatons. If you were to design a video game and populate it with your creations, it would be pretty boring to have them behave according to what the rules you have coded, which you have already predicted; as opposed to introducing some algorithms that would set in to motion some more interesting interactions...

So God did God create us to be good, or just entertaining. And if the Good One's bore God, why would he ever invite them into Heaven. Methinks perhaps we mixed up this heaven and Hell thing - perhaps it's Satan we should worship, at least then we'd be guaranteed a good time.

[flippyshark]

Originally Posted by David E

Many religious people think God reveals himself to them all the time. They attribute phenomena to him that science can’t explain - everything from the mathematically improbable coincidences we all experience, to ghosts to past life regressions...these may not all point to the existence of God, but they are supernatural and they are glimpses of something.

Um, you do know that mathematically improbable coincidences are absolutely inevitable and scientifically explainable, right?

Likewise ghosts and past life regressions. The dispassionate scientific investigation of these notions has yielded a big zero. People can attribute these things to any god they want, but that's just adding folly to delusion as near as I can tell. Are these notions comforting? Of course. That's a good reason to be suspicious of them, and do the hard work of investigating them.

And as to this notion of God not wanting us to be automatons, well, it seems as though most versions of Christianity end up with the elect being altered back to pre-Edenic perfection, to spend eternity glorifying the creator. That sounds pretty damned automated (and terrifyingly pointless). Obedient robots seem to be exactly what god intends for us to be in the grand scheme, though I have heard apologists hem and haw that we will somehow have perfect free will in the hereafter, but will somehow never ever do anything that isn't 100% pleasing to God because we will completely share His nature. What twaddle.