Commodification of sex

[bewitched]

Originally Posted by 3894

Can you explain?

Sure.

I know this discussion started as money (or value) for sex. But when you move it into the realm of relationships, commodification encompasses a quid pro quo which only sometimes involves sex (although I would be the first to admit that sex will many times get you bigger, better gifts from a spouse or SO ).

For instance, you want to appeal to your husband...there is a commodity there...whether it's because you want to remain sexually attractive to him or simply because pleasing him gratifies you, you are receiving something you desire and/or is of (emotional) benefit to you, but not something tangible.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by bewitched

For instance, you want to appeal to your husband...there is a commodity there...whether it's because you want to remain sexually attractive to him or simply because pleasing him gratifies you, you are receiving something you desire and/or is of (emotional) benefit to you, but not something tangible.

Which is what I was getting at earlier when I mentioned compromise.

Every social interaction involves the decision whether to be completely self-serving or to do what someone else would like to gain approval, or to find somewhere in between. If you go with the former every time, you're going to be a very lonely person. If you go with the second choice all the time, you're going to be a pretty uninteresting person with no personality. To be successful, both models have their place, whether we're talking about sexuality, doing the dishes, or hanging out at Disneyland.

[blueerica]

Originally Posted by bewitched

Sure.

I know this discussion started as money (or value) for sex. But when you move it into the realm of relationships, commodification encompasses a quid pro quo which only sometimes involves sex (although I would be the first to admit that sex will many times get you bigger, better gifts from a spouse or SO ).

For instance, you want to appeal to your husband...there is a commodity there...whether it's because you want to remain sexually attractive to him or simply because pleasing him gratifies you, you are receiving something you desire and/or is of (emotional) benefit to you, but not something tangible.

Heh - this brings me back to my belief that we are all 'selfish' even when we are being giving, and that's definitely a good thing - it's how we survive. Even if you receive no payment, satisfaction and appreciation are 'payments' of their own. No one would volunteer if it made them feel bad about themselves, or in some way was a detractor to good in their life. The same goes for how we behave in relationships.

Good call, Bewitched!

[Alex]

Originally Posted by blueerica

Heh - this brings me back to my belief that we are all 'selfish' even when we are being giving...

A man named Adam Smith once wrote a book (two actually) about this. He gained some fame for it.

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by blueerica

No one would volunteer if it made them feel bad about themselves, or in some way was a detractor to good in their life. The same goes for how we behave in relationships.

If that were remotely true, then entire shelves of the bookstore would disappear as would most afternoon TV.

As far as the legitimacy of stripping or fetish-videos-that-are-not-quite-screwing-on-film goes, I haven't seen any of these people on Higglytown Heroes, notwithstanding their apparent necessity. I think the test for how we feel about any job is to ask whether you'd be proud if your child came home and told you he or she was doing it. If you can say "That's wonderful, honey," because your daughter will have an easier time helping pay for college by getting gangbanged at bachelor parties rather than slinging pizza, then you have a true appreciation for the dignity of all work.

[bewitched]

Originally Posted by Strangler Lewis

I think the test for how we feel about any job is to ask whether you'd be proud if your child came home and told you he or she was doing it.

I disagree. I see nothing wrong with being a stripper. Does that mean I would be proud of my daughter if she did it? No.

As Alex pointed out, many people distinguish between what is acceptable (or degrading) to the public at large and what is acceptable (or degrading) to each of us individually.

After all, I wouldn't be very proud if my daughter came home and told me that she was a Republican either.

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by bewitched

I disagree. I see nothing wrong with being a stripper. Does that mean I would be proud of my daughter if she did it? No.

As Alex pointed out, many people distinguish between what is acceptable (or degrading) to the public at large and what is acceptable (or degrading) to each of us individually.

After all, I wouldn't be very proud if my daughter came home and told me that she was a Republican either.

Yes, as my mother used to say when she thought I was being exceedingly egalitarian, "Somebody has to take away the garbage; that doesn't mean it has to be you." (There was even a Seinfeld episode to that effect.) So God bless the dead animal guy, and the Mexican kid he had to do the really tough jobs in the high heat, but . . .

It's a documented fact that the naked girls pretending to be lesbians at spring break and in Girls Gone Wild videos are all Republicans.

[Alex]

I wouldn't be happy if my son* came home and told me he was going to work at McDonald's but that doesn't mean I think there is anything wrong with adults working at McDonald's.

There are reasons I wouldn't be pleased to have a child working in most areas of the sex industry but none of them have to do with objection to the sex itself. And in some areas I wouldn't be much bothered at all (except to the degree that we don't like to think about our close relatives having sex).

But I agree that a lot of people do things that make no actual sense. That doesn't mean a process of commodification isn't happening but people make bad deals all of the time ("I thought he would change," "when he isn't drunk he is really a wonderful person," "if I'm easy, he'll like me" are still examples of performing commodification, just with stupid valuations).

* I wouldn't be happy if my son came home (because I wouldn't be happy about having a son), but that is a different pathology.

[blueerica]

Originally Posted by Strangler Lewis

If that were remotely true, then entire shelves of the bookstore would disappear as would most afternoon TV.

I view this as a probably inherent mental pathology that requires help, likely from a professional who can deal with the often long-standing emotional issues that develop in people, myself included. Often, when I have done something that results (often repeatedly) in unhappiness or some other unwanted outcome, I did so in the belief that a positive outcome would happen, logic be damned.

My mother for example:
She has gone from bad relationship to bad relationship of varying degrees. She remains in these 'bad' relationships often because she thinks her actions will give her love (or her definition of love), or the opportunity to 'change' or 'help' someone (something she believes will make her, and the other person happy - gaining their gratitude for a 'better life'). Despite the often abusive (mental and/or physical) that come as a result of staying, the brief moments of feeling something she craves (and often feels like she can't get elsewhere) are enough of a reward to keep her there. I find that this is often the case.

There is also the flipside. Those who 'avoid.' I have a friend who is fairly shy. Painfully, at times. She would like to be more confident and wonders why she doesn't have more friends (negative outcome of her shyness), yet she remains quiet, away, and sometimes aloof because inside she hopes to avoid a potentially painful moment or rejection. By my definition of selfish, I'm not trying to qualify it beyond doing something or avoiding something because a person percieves it to benefit them, even if they're not directly thinking of the benefits. There are countless books on confidence, and simply because they're there doesn't discount my view on humanity. The people buying it are, again, hoping that doing so will result in a positive outcome.

But back to the topic at hand, the commodification of sex. I don't really hold a view on it, in terms of other people. I would not do it myself, at least currently, though I try to not pass judgement on those who do.

My cousin is a former stripper, who also is a recovering drug addict. Interestingly enough, her three stints swinging around the pole did not co-incide with the times she was using drugs. For her, a part of her liked the attention, but even more of her loved the pay. With the limited education she had at the time, plus her ballet and jazz dance background, there were few opportunities to make that kind of money. She sold her 'sex' for money and for the feeling of being desired.

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

Originally Posted by blueerica

.

My mother for example:

The tale you tell is all too true. I've seen it so many times and it's just so upsetting to see this type of self-distruction. You could almost liken it to a full-blown disorder - who knows it might actually be one. (not that I would know- No PhD here)


I guess my point is, gather 100 people and they will have 100 different reasons, feelings, ideas and beliefs about everything. About the subject of Erica's story and the topic of sexuality - there will also be 100 different ideas and reasoning. Mostly because these choices are made within the confinds of the human mind and no matter how we can justify or try to reason what they are, being sexual or whatever, we as another mind will never fully understand. Just as we know people can't understand everything about what we do and who we really are.

.02