Offshore Drilling Ban to be Lifted by Bush

[alphabassettgrrl]

Originally Posted by Sub la Goon

It feels like Big Oil is getting really nervous about losing their White House meal ticket (and maybe even to a Democrat!) and is jacking up the prices as high as they can while GWB is still is POTUS.

Yep. The next one is much less likely to be in their pocket. W has been a great friend to the oil companies.

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

(Cost/benefit analysis of drilling ANWR)

NET RESULT: Either we run out of oil in about 100 years but have given important ecosystems the best chance of survival, or we successfully find alternatives to oil within the next 100 years and have given important ecosystems the best chance of survival. All with little to no effect on consumer prices of oil in the meantime.

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

To me, there is one, and only one, endgame. Get off of oil. Delaying the depletion of oil, shifting the source of oil while we're depleting it are meaningless bandaids. We're dead if we don't get off oil and the window to do so is smaller than the time needed for any of this drilling to do us any good.

That's where I stand. The debate over domestic oil versus foreign oil still assumes an addiction to oil. Let's find other ways to do this. Stop using oil entirely.

I don't approve of drilling in sensitive areas. ANWR has only a small area scheduled to be drilled, but the impact is much wider than just the drilling rigs. Pipelines, vehicle traffic, construction traffic, spills, the waste and pollution from the men working the rigs, and various other disruptions and other factors unforeseen.

The debate comes down to valuing the environment (a soft benefit) over anything that humans want (a hard cost when we have to give something up). Humans have run roughshod over any environment we have touched. At what point do we have a responsibility to say "enough"? I think we're there.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by alphabassettgrrl

Stop using oil entirely.

Humans have run roughshod over any environment we have touched.

I'll tell you what....when Gore and all the enviromentalists calling for the elimination of using oil stop using oil, particularly to the extent Gore does, then I'll consider it.

Al Gore is Napolean from Animal Farm.

Really? Any environment we have touched? Sorry - I can go to innumerable beautiful and populated spots within a 10 hour drive of my home. Oh wait. I shouldn't drive 10 hours. Uses too much gas.

[Stan4dSteph]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I'll tell you what....when Gore and all the enviromentalists calling for the elimination of using oil stop using oil, particularly to the extent Gore does, then I'll consider it.

Al Gore is Napolean from Animal Farm.

Really? Any environment we have touched? Sorry - I can go to innumerable beautiful and populated spots within a 10 hour drive of my home. Oh wait. I shouldn't drive 10 hours. Uses too much gas.

This argument is made again and again and I'm so done with it. So you will do the opposite just because you think Gore is a hypocrite? That's a childish argument.

I am of the mind that I don't mind conserving something I may never see in real life. Ecosystems are delicate things and you can't predict all the effects human activity will have.

I see the current situation with oil as the prime opportunity for innovation into alternative sources. If we invest money into getting more oil instead of innovation, where is the economic incentive to develop those alternatives?

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Stan4dSteph

This argument is made again and again and I'm so done with it. So you will do the opposite just because you think Gore is a hypocrite? That's a childish argument.

Not so in the least. First of all, I never said I'd do anything opposite. I said when he stops, I'll stop. I didn't say I'm going to do my best to increase my energy usage to stick it to him and all his enviro-buddies.

Gore IS Napolean from Animal Farm. He is so important that he must consume more energy than he wishes any one else to. In Gore's world of purchasing carbon credits, then only the wealthy would have access to any energy at all.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I said when he stops, I'll stop.

That doesn't make any sense. You don't believe he is right about global warming but you'll go along if he behaves more like you think he should if he really believes what he says?

That's kind of like me saying I'll be whatever religion you are if you simply prove to me that you believe it.

If the problem is one of personal commitment (to your definition) then you're just picking the wrong role model. I can point you to plenty of people who come very close to living carbon neutral lifestyles, making all or most of the sacrifices you'd apparently require of Gore. So, since they've done it why don't you go ahead anyway?

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Alex

That doesn't make any sense. You don't believe he is right about global warming but you'll go along if he behaves more like you think he should if he really believes what he says?

It was meant to be a rhetocial point, not a literal. I haven't the means to give up consumption of petroleum products.