WTF Stories of the Week

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

And you've missed my point. No, I don't think there is only one way that people glean sexuality. My POINT is that, being the minority, the cuse that homosexuals end up by necessity using to call attention to their sexuality are by comparison, overt, explicit, and "in your face" because, by definition, they are different than what we see 90% of the time.

Even if same sex marriage becomes legal and commonplace among same sex couples, a man saying, "This is my husband" is going to stand out as "not normal" because 90% of men don't have husbands.

That's my only point. As I said, and Moonliner said, and Betty said, we still consider XBox's reaction wrong. Considering those kinds of overt declarations "inappropriate" is wrong. But no amount of social acceptance is going to change the fact that a large majority of people are heterosexual, that assuming heterosexuality is a rational default, and that idenfying yourself as homosexual is going to remain a conspicuous departure from "normal" (and by "normal" I mean "commonplace") conversation.

Normal is relative. To me, a same sex couple holding hands is not, and should not be "overt, explicit, and "in your face"". To me, it is normal. No different than an opposite sex couple doing the same thing.

But again, beside the point. What I object to is that same opposite sex couple claiming that they are not displaying their sexuality when they hold hands, but then tells me I am flaunting mine when I hold hands with my boyfriend. Can you not see the double standard there?

To me, it's like telling blacks that we whites fully support their equal rights as human beings, but then insist they cover up their dark skin because it's not "normal", and is "flaunting" their race.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by JWBear

But again, beside the point. What I object to is that same opposite sex couple claiming that they are not displaying their sexuality when they hold hands, but then tells me I am flaunting mine when I hold hands with my boyfriend. Can you not see the double standard there?

Yes, I can and I've said (third time) that I don't think it is flaunting or inappropriate.

But we're not talking about holding hands or kissing, or talking about your significant other. We're talking about a specific instance, saying, "I'm a lesbian," by way of describing yourself. There's no direct analog. Yes, saying, "My wife and I have been married for 3 years," on one level serves the same purpose. But to people who don't want to be tolerant, who want to find excuses to discriminate, it's easy for them to say, " You don't see me saying, "I'm straight" in my profile, do you?"

Denying the reality that there are actual, practical differences in the way things are communicated, to my eye, is counter productive. It'll just make people dig in. It gives them an easy excuse to say, "See, you're insisting on being treated differently and getting away with acting differently!"

The way I see it, it's better to confront and own those differences. "Yes, I DO occasionally have to be overt about it. You may be able to use the standard givens of society as an easy, effortless way to communicate what you want, but that doesn't work for me, so get over it. I'm not doing it to rub your face in it, I'm doing it because I have no other way to do what you do without even thinking about it."

[JWBear]

Again... All fine and good, but still not the point. Here it is in big letters:

Straight people display, show, demonstrate, proclaim, (insert whatever word you want) their sexuality every single day that they are alive; regardless of whether or not they realize it.

Can I say it any simpler? I know it may be obvious for some, but I am speaking to those who claim they do not.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by JWBear

Again... All fine and good, but still not the point. Here it is in big letters:

Straight people display, show, demonstrate, proclaim, (insert whatever word you want) their sexuality every single day that they are alive; regardless of whether or not they realize it.

Can I say it any simpler? I know it may be obvious for some, but I am speaking to those who claim they do not.

Sigh. You're clearly angry, and not really reading what I'm saying, so I'll drop it.

[Pirate Bill]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

Lesbian
Gay
Homophobe
Christian
Nudist
Athiest
Hedonist
Swinger
Wife Beater
Pederast
Copraphiliac
Flirt
Polygamist
Asexual
Virgin
etc. etc. etc.

Would ANY of those things REALLY matter in an on-line gaming community?

Yes, yes they are. It's important for your fellow gamers to know the most effective hateful slurs to use against you. Knowing these things is just so much more efficient.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Sigh. You're clearly angry, and not really reading what I'm saying, so I'll drop it.

No, I am not angry... Frustrated, but not angry.

I am reading what you are saying. Are you reading what I am saying? You're posts, while well written and engaging, have very little to do with what I am talking about.

Betty stated that she did not "proclaim" her sexuality. While the word was a bit hyperbolic, it was obvious she was not using the exact, Websters approved, definition of "proclaim", but more along the lines of "demonstrate" or "exhibit". I responded to that. My main point (again, for anyone who missed it) was to show her that, yes indeed, she exhibits signs of her sexuality all the time. All straight people do - all humans do.

Then there was the post that dismissed my words, merely because of the use of the word "proclaim". I found it petty and insulting. If you want to debate me, debate the context of what I said. Dismissing the subject of a post merely because of one (debatably) misused word is lazy and irritating.

Then I was told, by someone else, that I was attacking Betty, and telling her she could not talk about her husband. WTF?

Then, despite repeating and rephrasing my point over and over, I’m bombarded with posts that are irrelevant to what I am trying to say?

No… I’ll drop it. I’ll be a good little faggot, and go crawl back into my second class hole, lined with the best of double standards and guarded by the sentinels of majority smugness and indifference.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by JWBear

Then, despite repeating and rephrasing my point over and over, I’m bombarded with posts that are irrelevant to what I am trying to say?

Well, perhaps we're just talking at two different points. I just don't understand yelling your point at me when, in each one of my posts, I not only did not DENY the point you've made, I've actually pretty explicitly backed it up.

I'm responding to the original story, the specific case of someone explicitly saying, "I'm a lesbian" in a public profile. It's a case that is not analogous to the everyday types of subtle, unconscious expression of sexuality that we engage in. It's a statement that I think deserves further examination beyond the indignant, "RESPECT MY RIGHT TO BE NORMAL JUST LIKE EVERYONE!" because it does occupy a gray area that our society, even those of us who DO respect your rights, isn't equipped to handle cleanly.

And while the pedantry of "imply" vs. "declare" may not have been directly related to the side conversation between you and Betty, it DOES have important implications to the larger topic at hand.

[Disneyphile]

I think this sums it up in one line:

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." - Eleanor Roosevelt

[Betty]

Originally Posted by JWBear

I’ll be a good little faggot, and go crawl back into my second class hole, lined with the best of double standards and guarded by the sentinels of majority smugness and indifference.

Do you really mean this? That all or most of here feel that you're some sort of second class citizen deserving of poor treatment and double standards? Or are you venting your frustration at the world in a more general sense?

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Betty

Do you really mean this? That all or most of here feel that you're some sort of second class citizen deserving of poor treatment and double standards? Or are you venting your frustration at the world in a more general sense?

No, dear lady. Fear not.

When one realizes that one is engaged in a pointless conversation, the best one can do is to bow out with all the wit and flare at ones disposal. To leave ones opponents confused is the best revenge.