Commodification of sex

[bewitched]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

And the use of sex appeal for money, favors, survival, revenge, and a host of other goals is hardly unnatural to the female species either, imo.

It's hardly unnatural to the female of many species.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

And yet many of the same women who insist on this kind of personal credo would have men "deform their male sexuality" (setting aside for a moment €'s astute point that that assumes some sort of uniform gender sexuality) and forgo their desire for visual stimulation.

No, that's certainly not necessary. Because there ISN'T some sort of uniform gender sexuality. All that's necessary for a woman who chooses to look different than the "typical" is to find a partner who finds her more attractive than the "typical." And surely you have seen that there's not just one color, shape, or size in porn. Different things float different people's boats. (So. That's what the kids are calling it these days.)

[3894]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

while there's certainly something to be said for ones own internal model of sexuality, ultimately the goal is to appeal to someone else. Like any other aspect of ones personality you will continually be faced with the choice of sticking to your guns vs. making a compromise to please someone else.

Much of the commodification of sex in our culture caters to men. Women, especially young ones, feel pressure to conform to what the patriarchy says is sexy.

None of this means that I don't want to appeal to my husband and please him. Of course I do. Our relationship is outside the sphere of commodification, even though as a married couple we are an economic unit.

[Strangler Lewis]

I certainly agree that everything doesn't have to be hearts and flowers. However, it depresses me to a degree that the cultural models for so much of our youth today are, respectively, wrestling and porn. In terms of what's degrading, foot binding and female genital mutilation, both of which are shepherded by women are degrading. As far as modern American sex goes, anything that makes you look like a f****** idiot for jumping through that hoop is degrading. That goes for any situation in life. Like Potter Stewart, I know it when I see it. And, of course, we will disagree.

[bewitched]

Originally Posted by 3894

None of this means that I don't want to appeal to my husband and please him. Of course I do. Our relationship is outside the sphere of commodification, even though as a married couple we are an economic unit.

Not all aspects of commodification are tangible.

[3894]

Originally Posted by bewitched

Not all aspects of commodification are tangible.

Can you explain?

[bewitched]

Originally Posted by 3894

Can you explain?

Sure.

I know this discussion started as money (or value) for sex. But when you move it into the realm of relationships, commodification encompasses a quid pro quo which only sometimes involves sex (although I would be the first to admit that sex will many times get you bigger, better gifts from a spouse or SO ).

For instance, you want to appeal to your husband...there is a commodity there...whether it's because you want to remain sexually attractive to him or simply because pleasing him gratifies you, you are receiving something you desire and/or is of (emotional) benefit to you, but not something tangible.

[blueerica]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

What he said!

I have a friend who's an erotic model. Just to be clear - she gets naked, gets in outfits, gets tied up, often tortured to some degree, and photos are taken. No sex on camera, but still, obviously these pics are for men to get off on. She loves what she does. She's bookish, intelligent, funny, and completely down to earth about her job. Her husband is a set builder and they work together. She's also finishing up business school and has had plenty of "normal" jobs.

I have no problem with her occupation. There's a need to be filled. People love porn, especially men, and there's no possible future where this won't be so. To pretend that we can have porn and not have the "objectification of women" or men for that matter is ridiculous. There's plenty of porn that includes the worship of women and the torture of men, as well.

I'll say it - I like being objectified, and I like objectifying my husband. But that's just one aspect of a multi-faceted sexual relationship. Sometimes we make love, sometimes we fck.

Bless your soul, CP!

I have a friend that has done this in the past, and does so again, on occasion, and also does movies/videos. Just like your friend, there's no sex, but the sensuality is there for someone else down the road who purchases or downloads the picture. What I find most interesting about fetish is that it's all in the eye of the beholder, so it's safe to assume that our 'differences' if not mainstream, will still be attractive to someone.

To that extent, I also agree that sex and relationships are multi-faceted and are fulfilled by complexities, as you briefly described above. IMO, it's important and natural.

Now the commodification of sex... Hmm....

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by bewitched

For instance, you want to appeal to your husband...there is a commodity there...whether it's because you want to remain sexually attractive to him or simply because pleasing him gratifies you, you are receiving something you desire and/or is of (emotional) benefit to you, but not something tangible.

Which is what I was getting at earlier when I mentioned compromise.

Every social interaction involves the decision whether to be completely self-serving or to do what someone else would like to gain approval, or to find somewhere in between. If you go with the former every time, you're going to be a very lonely person. If you go with the second choice all the time, you're going to be a pretty uninteresting person with no personality. To be successful, both models have their place, whether we're talking about sexuality, doing the dishes, or hanging out at Disneyland.

[blueerica]

Originally Posted by bewitched

Sure.

I know this discussion started as money (or value) for sex. But when you move it into the realm of relationships, commodification encompasses a quid pro quo which only sometimes involves sex (although I would be the first to admit that sex will many times get you bigger, better gifts from a spouse or SO ).

For instance, you want to appeal to your husband...there is a commodity there...whether it's because you want to remain sexually attractive to him or simply because pleasing him gratifies you, you are receiving something you desire and/or is of (emotional) benefit to you, but not something tangible.

Heh - this brings me back to my belief that we are all 'selfish' even when we are being giving, and that's definitely a good thing - it's how we survive. Even if you receive no payment, satisfaction and appreciation are 'payments' of their own. No one would volunteer if it made them feel bad about themselves, or in some way was a detractor to good in their life. The same goes for how we behave in relationships.

Good call, Bewitched!